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atcsundevil
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NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:42 pm

A.Net Members,

As part of our 2018 Forum Rules Update, we have fundamentally changed a number of items pertaining to the Trip Reports Forum.

A growing trend in recent years has been users posting Video Trip Reports/Vlogs. While not specifically addressed in our current set of rules, it is addressed in our update. It has been a topic of contention for some users, as Trip Reports have traditionally included narratives and pictures, occasionally with videos linked within.

If you are choosing to post a Trip Report in this forum, please be aware of these new rules, which are included below.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

o. Posting to the Trip Reports Forum
    1. Users are encouraged to provide a complete start to finish account of your journeys with the sort of detail your fellow enthusiasts will appreciate. Photo-essays on complete trips are welcomed and encouraged. The more detail the better.
    2. Video Trip Reports
      i. Videos are permitted to be included in Trip Reports provided a complete narrative of the trip report is provided.
      ii. Trip Reports that have little detail with or without a video will be deleted.
      iii. Trip reports with videos must include the word “Video” in the title. Examples may include but not limited to “Full Trip Report with Video”, “With Video”, “Includes Video”, or something similar.
    3. Use of Personal Websites or Blogs
      i. Links to Personal Websites and Personal Blogs as an image host is permitted provided that the full text of the report is included in the post. This is only permitted in the Trip Reports Forum.
      ii. Trip Reports that include a link to a personal website or blog without a complete narrative will be deleted.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just for clarification:
    - Videos posted with little or no narrative are not permitted.
    - Trip Reports which are primarily in Video/Vlog format MUST have a disclaimer in the title that it is a Video Trip Report.
    - Using an image hosting site or personal blog to link to more pictures is permitted, but ONLY in the Trip Reports Forum.
    - IF LINKING TO A PERSONAL BLOG OR WEBSITE -- All text from the Trip Report is required to be included within your post, and some attempt must be made at including a few pictures. Personal blogs or websites may only be utilized to reference additional images.
 
AR385
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:43 pm

Great! It was about time. Nothing I disliked more than to open a trip report and only a find a youtube link. Good decision from the moderators team!
 
outbackair
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:49 am

Well done! This is long overdue. In some cases, it's clearly clickbait from members hoping to earn some money from views of poorly edited rubbish done on a Go-pro and some frustratingly random, distracting music that the person happens to like. Other times, they don't even bother to edit and think people want to watch a two hour 'Full flight' video of their LCC holiday flight.

Probably need to delete videos that have music without copyright permission anyway.

CONGRATULATIONS to all the people that have bothered to put in the effort to provide 'real' trip reports!
 
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alex0easy
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:25 am

About time.
 
klkla
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:27 am

This is a great policy update. Thanks :)
 
An767
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:28 am

Thanks . If I ever see a pure Video report I don't bother, why should I chew up my bandwidth because you are to lazy to do it right
AN767
If its got wings put me on it. If it floats on water take it away
 
Cush
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:01 am

Thank you! I agree! I absolutely HATE the stupid video trip reports. There is nothing more frustrating than seeing a pointless video that I have no desire to watch. Honestly, the people who make those videos are completely wasting their time.
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
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hirofumi
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:14 am

atcsundevil wrote:
    - IF LINKING TO A PERSONAL BLOG OR WEBSITE -- All text from the Trip Report is required to be included within your post, and some attempt must be made at including a few pictures. Personal blogs or websites may only be utilized to reference additional images.

Just to clarify - so will a short summary format with a few pictures linking to personal blogs is allowed? The reason being if copying ALL text from the personal blog, it may not be helpful in search engines (both for A.net and the personal blog).
 
cc47
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:17 am

Great work! Video trip reports without detail we're annoying. Thanks!
 
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allrite
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:09 am

hirofumi wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
    - IF LINKING TO A PERSONAL BLOG OR WEBSITE -- All text from the Trip Report is required to be included within your post, and some attempt must be made at including a few pictures. Personal blogs or websites may only be utilized to reference additional images.

Just to clarify - so will a short summary format with a few pictures linking to personal blogs is allowed? The reason being if copying ALL text from the personal blog, it may not be helpful in search engines (both for A.net and the personal blog).


I would also like further clarification on this. It's good that we can link to a blog for further images, because linking extensive image sets can be a real pain here now. Even when I write full reports here (something I increasingly lack time for due to the effort of converting code) I link to my blog because it contains extensive non-aviation related travel commentary that doesn't really belong on A.net (We are talking many thousands of words here). Or I write for different audiences so the text may differ, but surely it's worth providing a link.
I like artificial banana essence!
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:01 pm

hirofumi wrote:
Just to clarify - so will a short summary format with a few pictures linking to personal blogs is allowed? The reason being if copying ALL text from the personal blog, it may not be helpful in search engines (both for A.net and the personal blog).


I have the answer on this one, as my blogging company told me how this works.

1. Your airliners.net Trip Report should have a completely different title to your blog post (as the search engines will realise it's a duplicate otherwise).

Include the full text as airliners.net requests, however...

2. You should write a completely new beginning. Apparently Google only check the first two or three paragraphs. What I do is write an entirely new first two or three paragraphs for the airliners.net audience, so a new introduction... and then paste in the full text from the blog post.

This way it's a win/win situation where neither site is being penalised.

allrite wrote:
I would also like further clarification on this. It's good that we can link to a blog for further images, because linking extensive image sets can be a real pain here now. Even when I write full reports here (something I increasingly lack time for due to the effort of converting code) I link to my blog because it contains extensive non-aviation related travel commentary that doesn't really belong on A.net (We are talking many thousands of words here). Or I write for different audiences so the text may differ, but surely it's worth providing a link.


I think it's clear enough, you should know what a Trip Report is on airliners.net. When it comes to the images, I usually link the images directly from the blog now, rather than using 3rd party sites like I used to. It's so much easier to pick the 5 to 10 best pics for the report on here to illustrate it and then have the other 40 odd in the blog.

Well done to the mods, I agree on the new rules completely. Nice work!
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:07 pm

Thank you all for your feedback. A number of users have been quite upset with the decline in quality of many Trip Reports, so our hope is that this will clarify our standards and prevent many low quality users from posting. As always, please report posts to us which fall short of these standards.

hirofumi wrote:
Just to clarify - so will a short summary format with a few pictures linking to personal blogs is allowed? The reason being if copying ALL text from the personal blog, it may not be helpful in search engines (both for A.net and the personal blog).

No, all text needs to be transferred into our site. We only allow blogs or other sites because we recognize that our forums have never been conducive to posting images. It's often finicky and cumbersome. Text, however, is an easy copy/paste with some formatting thrown in. The idea is that users shouldn't have to leave the site to view the Trip Report, but they can choose to if they'd like to view more images or videos.

allrite wrote:
I would also like further clarification on this. It's good that we can link to a blog for further images, because linking extensive image sets can be a real pain here now. Even when I write full reports here (something I increasingly lack time for due to the effort of converting code) I link to my blog because it contains extensive non-aviation related travel commentary that doesn't really belong on A.net (We are talking many thousands of words here). Or I write for different audiences so the text may differ, but surely it's worth providing a link.

Part of that clarification is above. While I realize your intent is to give readers access to your material, our site does not exist for the promotion of users or their blogs/social media. Links to your blog should never exist for that purpose, and it wouldn't have been permitted even before the update.

In future trip reports, a narrative needs to be written with a few pictures included, and a link to your blog may only be included as a means to view more pictures or other media related to that Trip Report. If they come across your other work, then great, but it can't be promoted as such. Most users on this site don't want to filter out what amounts to advertisement. For example:

GOOD:"For more pictures, visit this page on my blog..."
BAD:"Check out my blog..."

ClassicLover wrote:
I think it's clear enough, you should know what a Trip Report is on airliners.net. When it comes to the images, I usually link the images directly from the blog now, rather than using 3rd party sites like I used to. It's so much easier to pick the 5 to 10 best pics for the report on here to illustrate it and then have the other 40 odd in the blog.

:checkmark: Exactly. The text is the easy part — copy/paste with a little formatting. We realized a while back that our forums are very inconvenient to hosting images, so we let the rules slide when using blogs or images hosts. This just makes it official.

Thank you for explaining the search engine issue — I wouldn't have had an answer for that one!
 
SaschaYHZ
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:43 pm

Just a quick question regarding videos: If they simply add a BIT to the narrative, are they OK? I.E "Here is the video of our take off from ABC." Followed later in the report by "Here is our landing in DEF"
 
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SQ22
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:11 pm

SaschaYHZ wrote:
Just a quick question regarding videos: If they simply add a BIT to the narrative, are they OK? I.E "Here is the video of our take off from ABC." Followed later in the report by "Here is our landing in DEF"


Yes, as long as you follow the rules as described above.
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:04 pm

Nice! Now I can start doing my trip reports. With the link to blog posts and you tube videos (which I will link with the complete narrative), that were appearing here, it made me wonder if people still read trip reports. All these shortened version were such a discouragement to actually taking the effort to actually write a detailed trip report. Thank you A.net for taking a stand on this and bringing trip reports on here back to it's glorious past.
 
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allrite
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:09 am

atcsundevil wrote:
In future trip reports, a narrative needs to be written with a few pictures included, and a link to your blog may only be included as a means to view more pictures or other media related to that Trip Report. If they come across your other work, then great, but it can't be promoted as such. Most users on this site don't want to filter out what amounts to advertisement. For example:

GOOD:"For more pictures, visit this page on my blog..."
BAD:"Check out my blog..."



I appreciate what you are trying to achieve and I'm not arguing with you that the trip reports on A.Net should be anything less than the complete narratives - of the aviation related section of a trip. Personally I like to read about what people did at their destination as well. However, it is neither practical, nor ideal from the perspective from an aviation audience, to expect that the "destination" text always be fully incorporated into an A.Net trip report post - in my case we can be talking of tens of thousands of words covering weeks of travel. So I think a link to "more information" is fully justified in these cases. E.g.

Full report on outbound flight
Destination summary with selection of photos
For more photos of Japan and full details of my ten days exploring the railway system please see travel blog link.
Full report on return flight

The whole point of the web is to allow hyperlinking to other relevant resources for interested readers. It's not always about advertising and self-promotion.

I've written plenty of the above kind of trip reports in the "old days" and considering the amount of effort put into them I would be exceedingly disappointed should an equivalent report find itself being arbitrarily deleted in future.
I like artificial banana essence!
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:41 am

Allrite, at least your "click bait" trip report headings won't suffer lol :). You did yourself admit that putting up such headings gets people to read your reports and increase the readership :)
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:01 am

allrite wrote:
I appreciate what you are trying to achieve and I'm not arguing with you that the trip reports on A.Net should be anything less than the complete narratives - of the aviation related section of a trip. Personally I like to read about what people did at their destination as well. However, it is neither practical, nor ideal from the perspective from an aviation audience, to expect that the "destination" text always be fully incorporated into an A.Net trip report post - in my case we can be talking of tens of thousands of words covering weeks of travel. So I think a link to "more information" is fully justified in these cases. E.g.

Full report on outbound flight
Destination summary with selection of photos
For more photos of Japan and full details of my ten days exploring the railway system please see travel blog link.
Full report on return flight

The whole point of the web is to allow hyperlinking to other relevant resources for interested readers. It's not always about advertising and self-promotion.

I've written plenty of the above kind of trip reports in the "old days" and considering the amount of effort put into them I would be exceedingly disappointed should an equivalent report find itself being arbitrarily deleted in future.

I see what you're saying. That's something I consider to be quite different. Linking to a blog for trip-related material would be fine, in my view. I don't think any Moderator would take issue if you said, "For more information on my time in Hong Kong, visit this page." I was referring to shameless plugs of user blogs, websites, or social media. Linking to your blog to advertise your other work unrelated to the trip isn't acceptable, and that's part of what we aim to end. Most people don't want to see that, because then it changes the tone of your post from a TR to an opportunity to advertise your work. There's been a lot of that lately, and that's why so many users (as evidenced in this thread) are supportive of our efforts to prove quality. People just don't want to see something that's perceived as advertising.

Perhaps this is something that could use a little more clarity in what's been written. Where we stand on blog/website/social media use...

OK:
- Linking your blog for additional pictures, videos, and other media
- Linking your blog for destination info/narrative/pictures directly related to that TR; non-aviation portions of your trip

NOT OK:
- Generalized "check out my blog" promotions
- Links to unrelated blog posts or past Trip Report blogs (links to past A.Net posts are always fine, of course)

It's not that we're trying to be unnecessarily ridiculous about this stuff, but it has been a massive point of contention among users who frequent this forum. The journalism standards have declined, and there's been an increase in users utilizing this site purely for their own gain. We have nothing against user blogs, but we don't want to be used as a vehicle to unwittingly promote or be seen to endorse it.
 
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allrite
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:09 am

Flightsimboy wrote:
Allrite, at least your "click bait" trip report headings won't suffer lol :). You did yourself admit that putting up such headings gets people to read your reports and increase the readership :)


:D Twice out of how many reports in 11 years! I do humbly apologise for the last three reports which have been primarily links to my own blogs, but I've honestly been too busy to do the clean up required to post them here. I wanted to share with a few people who have stuck by me these years.

No doubt a reason we've seen fewer trip reports from many previously prolific authors is that work and family life have intervened with time. But *somebody* needs to report on Y class! :)
I like artificial banana essence!
 
klkla
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:10 am

To be honest I come to this section to read full trip reports. I really dislike when the reports that are posted here are really just intended as clickbait. I hope these updates will result in a return to how trip reports were a couple years ago.

OTOH has anyone noticed there haven't been any new reports published since the new rules were posted?
 
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FabDiva
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:31 am

Well I haven't been on a trip this weekend ;) - or for a year or so as I've been clearing credit card debts - I do have trips lined up for March and April though ;)

I do tend to write full essays as well as doing video and I prefer to read something without sound when I'm on an early Sunday duty at work (joy of being on duty before the customers wake up!)

Can I also request more economy reports too, I've noticed a shift to C/F in the trip report genre and would like to see some experiences in cattle and not just how the other half live (though I don't mind reading those too)
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:12 am

allrite wrote:
But *somebody* needs to report on Y class! :)


FabDiva wrote:
Can I also request more economy reports too, I've noticed a shift to C/F in the trip report genre and would like to see some experiences in cattle and not just how the other half live (though I don't mind reading those too)


Your wish is my command... come May :)

I'm flying DUB-ORD-SEA on AA in Y, then JFK-DCA on AA in Y, then DCA-BOS on AA and BOS-LHR-DUB on BA all in Y.

Every single flight will get trip report. It's the first time I have flown international Economy class in years. Mid trip I'm on the YVR-JFK on CX in J though, just to preserve my sanity (thank you, frequent flyer miles!). I always post all my reports, it's just I've been flying in J most of the time thanks to sales and points.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
outbackair
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:29 pm

FabDiva wrote:

Can I also request more economy reports too, I've noticed a shift to C/F in the trip report genre and would like to see some experiences in cattle and not just how the other half live (though I don't mind reading those too)



I think SOME people think others will be impressed if they travel C/F. In reality, some of these are very boring - all about 'me'. HOWEVER, there are some good posters who show lesser known airlines in C/F or even write very good reports, like the gentleman who flys up front from Perth to Europe on EK.
 
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hirofumi
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:07 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
hirofumi wrote:
Just to clarify - so will a short summary format with a few pictures linking to personal blogs is allowed? The reason being if copying ALL text from the personal blog, it may not be helpful in search engines (both for A.net and the personal blog).


I have the answer on this one, as my blogging company told me how this works.

1. Your airliners.net Trip Report should have a completely different title to your blog post (as the search engines will realise it's a duplicate otherwise).

Include the full text as airliners.net requests, however...

2. You should write a completely new beginning. Apparently Google only check the first two or three paragraphs. What I do is write an entirely new first two or three paragraphs for the airliners.net audience, so a new introduction... and then paste in the full text from the blog post.

This way it's a win/win situation where neither site is being penalised.

Thanks for the details, didn't know!
 
brucetiki
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:42 am

These are some great changes. As someone who's only been reading the TR's on here for a few months, my favourites are the detailed start-finish essays with the right number of pictures, while the 'check out my blog/vlog with little info' ones I find irritating.

I'm intending to do a TR for my next trip in a few months, so I appreciate the guidelines above so that I can ensure it's a good quality, enjoyable report.
 
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vatveng
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:36 am

I used to post a detailed trip report on every one of the 2-3 trips per year I took from the point of view of an "infrequent frequent flyer", but as I got less interested in what was being posted by some others, I stopped posting my own. I couldn't really point to why I wasn't reading as many trip reports but now that you mention it, it was because the topics that looked the most interesting to me ended up being the ones that were just links to videos (or worse, nothing but embedded videos with little narrative).
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: NEW RULES FOR TRIP REPORTS FORUM

Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:42 pm

vatveng wrote:
I used to post a detailed trip report on every one of the 2-3 trips per year I took from the point of view of an "infrequent frequent flyer", but as I got less interested in what was being posted by some others, I stopped posting my own. I couldn't really point to why I wasn't reading as many trip reports but now that you mention it, it was because the topics that looked the most interesting to me ended up being the ones that were just links to videos (or worse, nothing but embedded videos with little narrative).

That's been a prolific complaint among those who frequent this forum. These rules won't stop poor quality threads completely, because there will always be users who either don't read these rules or don't care, but it at least defines expectations. With those clear expectations, it's much easier for us to make a deletion of threads clearly having made insufficient effort, and more importantly, for average users to report the thread to us if we don't see it first.

That said, I make it a point to contact all users when I delete a Trip Report, and I'll include the text just in case. I'll even go as far to email them the raw text so formatting isn't lost. It's a lot of effort to make a TR, even if it doesn't meet standards. The goal isn't to penalize posters, so I believe it's important to educate where possible. Hopefully these better-defined rules will help to that end.

As someone who enjoys reading trip reports myself, I want to make sure that I'm reading something worth my time. If a user clearly hasn't made the effort, then it's not fair to allow it to stand alongside those who have. We have a large number of outstanding contributors here, so it's certainly unfair to them to have the quality of the board decline. That's what we aim to fix.

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