sovietjet
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Noise and Oversharp?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:01 pm

I just had this rejected for:

http://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... ecbbde6a57

Noise
Quality
Underexposed
Oversharpened

Is it really that bad? I understand the underexposed, and can brighten it up. The quality I'm not exactly sure, since I resized to 1200 wide from over 5000 wide. But noise? This was taken with a 5D mark IV, at ISO400 and I did two passes of noise reduction on it, once during RAW conversion and once with Neat Image. Please, where is this noise? I find it hard to see this camera generating much noise at this low ISO (for a full frame). Same with oversharpened. I edited this photo and applied NO sharpening at all. Not before resizing, not after. How can it be oversharpened? It came out sharp and in focus straight out of the camera so I didn't see any need to sharpen. Have we reached a point where an actual sharp, in focus photo is now rejectable? How can I "desharpen" the photo?
 
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airkas1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:39 pm

It's not noisy, but it looks blurry. I realize this wasn't mentioned in the rejection, but that's what I'm seeing.
 
len90
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:46 pm

I think the main issue that really affects this image is the angle of the sun. Also interested to know the f stop used. Blurry on the back half is what I am seeing. Makes me wonder if it is due to exhaust or from a lack of depth of field.
Len90
 
sovietjet
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:24 pm

It was taken at f/9.0. The blurry in the back part is definitely due to exhaust. It can be seen in the original unedited version. The angle of the sun is no ideal, but shouldn't affect noise and sharpness. Technically the sun was still on "my side" although it was definitely approaching centreline angle. It is definitely not worse than the sun on this photo:



I guess I will try and re-edit, and reupload but I wanted to make sure I'm not going crazy because I'm not seeing noise anywhere.
 
Blurto
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:41 pm

I don't see any noise and I don't think it's under exposed. Matter of opinion I guess. I've seen worse photos accepted.
 
sovietjet
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:15 pm

I reuploaded the photo, the only thing different is that I brightened it up a bit and did a pass of noise reduction:

http://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... bfd85703fe

Now it is rejected for:

Blurry
Compression
Overexposed
Soft

So, I'm rather curious. How was it rejected for oversharp on the first try but soft now? Where is this compression and blur? The photo is razor sharp out of the camera! How does raising the levels up a few points to fix underexposed now make it become overexposed? Seems like a very thin line... I find the rejection reasons quite inconsistent. Especially compression, what exactly does this mean and how exactly do I fix it? I resize and save at the highest quality...
 
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airkas1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:34 pm

The image is quite blurry, which makes all other aspects irrelevant. I mentioned the blurry earlier though, but the initial rejection should've included that. That's our bad and I'm sorry for that.

Soft and blurry go hand in hand in this case and compression I don't really see. The hightlights could be toned down a bit, but otherwise the exposure is passable for me if the image was sharp.
 
sovietjet
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:53 pm

airkas1 thanks fort he reply. Where do you see the blur?
 
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airkas1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:16 pm

Pretty much everywhere except the nearest wing & engine.
 
sovietjet
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:42 pm

I must be blind :-) . I really don't see the blurriness anywhere besides the rear part that is blurred out from engine exhaust. If it helps, I will post a 100% unresized part of the photo.
 
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airkas1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:56 pm

I realize the exhaust plays a part in the aft section, but despite that it still looks blurry. The entire front section, nose and gear look blurry to me. I'd be happy to take a look at a 100% unresized part if you like.
 
sovietjet
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:23 am

Here are two completely unedited, original resolution parts of the photo. The original photo is 6700 pixels wide, after cropping out some empty sky the airplane itself was 5200 pixels. Then I resized that to 1200 pixels for upload. I don't really see any blur here, and besides that, a resize from 5200 to 1200 is easily enough to cover up any minor problems.

Image

Image
 
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airkas1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:28 am

I agree that the smaller size could cover up some of the flaws, but the fuselage of the 100% crop looks blurry or super soft at best. My guess is due to the light/reflections? Not sure. In any case, what I see in the 100% crop is pretty much the blurryness I see on the fuselage of the edited photo. So either the original isn't as good as you (and to an extent, I) think or something is going wrong in the post processing.
 
JakTrax
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:53 pm

The original definitely looks blurry to me - it's most obvious on the 'TE' of the nosegear door.

Karl
 
sovietjet
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:42 pm

So, does this mean I should give up on this shot? Frankly, I'm surprised that everyone thinks it's blurry. Either the standards here have risen sharply or I've had some crazy luck getting 1500 photos accepted. I've considered the type of softness seen on this photo at full resolution normal, and have uploaded photos that looked worse. I suppose I should just upload a boring side-on of this aircraft a few seconds later, but I always strive for the more interesting angle...
 
JakTrax
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:01 pm

Sovietjet, it's got nothing to do with side-ons getting preferential treatment - in fact, standards for those are about the strictest here (or certainly should be). Your photo is blurry - 1500 accepted or not, those of us who can clearly see it can't all be wrong. The original file is noticeably so, and I don't know what to suggest if you can't see it.

With all due respect, your photo isn't exactly a whole lot different to a 'boring' side-on when it comes to the challenge in capturing it. Besides, why would the next couple of frames necessarily be any different? Are side-ons easier to get sharp or something? More difficult if anything as that's the moment the subject moves fastest across the frame. You can't expect more lenient screening simply because you consider the angle to be something different.

You took a poor photo - happens to us all at times.
 
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airkas1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:12 pm

Ivan, we're just saying that this particular photo isn't great (and frankly looks unsalvagable to me), nothing more. And I'm certainly not drawing the conclusion that one less-good photo means you should change your uploads, shooting angle or that you've had luck with 1500 photos (because if you get such a number of uploads, luck is not involved anymore).
 
sovietjet
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:40 pm

Fair enough, I will give up on this one. I have been getting a lot more rejections than normal lately (down to 36% now) so I'm not sure what is happening, whether with something I'm doing or in general.
 
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airkas1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:45 pm

If there is something we can help with, use this thread for it or shoot me an E-mail at airkas1[at]airliners.net if needed.
 
sovietjet
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:39 am

OK, I got the next one :-). Again blurry and compression. Where is the blur? You can count the rivets on the thing :-) And how does one see the compression? There is literally nothing I can do about it...

http://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... e88147cb6c
 
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HarryLi
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:13 am

I don't see any obvious Compression from this one. Blurry looks not bad to me but maybe is bit of soft i think.
I am a Guangzhou Spotter. My photos are here : http://www.airliners.net/search?user=20 ... =viewCount :D
 
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airkas1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:06 pm

I don't see any real compression, but there is some slight blur. However, it may be passable for the conditions.
 
sovietjet
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:53 pm

I think it is maybe slightly soft, which I can fix with some selective sharpening. I will do that and reupload. Blur seems almost impossible to me, due to the short focal length, good light, and almost no relative movement between the subject and me. How do you guys see compression in general? How do I avoid it?
 
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HarryLi
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:11 pm

How do you guys see compression in general? How do I avoid it?

I really don't cosider that your photos rejected for compression have compression issue. If they have, maybe you can check your saving settings of PS or LR. Besides, i found that using too much "Reduce Noise" will cause Compression as well. But as me and Kas said that this one doesn't have this problem.
I am a Guangzhou Spotter. My photos are here : http://www.airliners.net/search?user=20 ... =viewCount :D
 
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airkas1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:46 pm

I gave the F-22 (?) photo 2 more passes of sharpening and it looked better. Perhaps it's just soft instead of blurry.
As for compression, honestly most compression rejections given nowadays are BS. I personally seldom encounter photos that I feel are truly compressed.
 
dutchspotter1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:37 am

The cloud area does seem a bit uneven colored/shaded, but I don't know if that has to do with actual compression or if it's just the cloud structure.
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airkas1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:38 am



Woooo! :yes:
 
sovietjet
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:36 am

airkas1, thanks for the advice. After re-editing and upload, it was accepted and actually got some nice viewership :-)
 
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Acey
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:43 am

sovietjet wrote:
How can I "desharpen" the photo?


The new thing now is for my images to be rejected as oversharp with the slider at zero and no sharpening applied, so I wonder if it's in the way it's exported.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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airkas1
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Re: Noise and Oversharp?

Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:05 pm

I've encountered photos being rather OS as well with my new camera. Often I don't need to use any sharpening at all. A solution could be the blur tool, but I'd advise caution when using it (as it's easy to overdo it).

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