Improvements and Opinions

Runway28L · Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:39 am

Hello all,

I've finally decided to use photoshop and upload after nearly 4 years of taking photos.

Anyway, here are two of my first few photos I've gone and edited. Since I'm new with this sort of thing, I understand that they probably aren't the best:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/

Thanks

vcruvinel · Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:03 am

Runway28L wrote:
Hello all,

I've finally decided to use photoshop and upload after nearly 4 years of taking photos.

Anyway, here are two of my first few photos I've gone and edited. Since I'm new with this sort of thing, I understand that they probably aren't the best:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/

Thanks

[I'm not a A.net screener]

Hi,

In my monitor both appears soft and also lack some contrast. But will be nice to wait a second opinion.

Best,

Vinicius

Runway28L · Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:49 pm

vcruvinel wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
Hello all,

I've finally decided to use photoshop and upload after nearly 4 years of taking photos.

Anyway, here are two of my first few photos I've gone and edited. Since I'm new with this sort of thing, I understand that they probably aren't the best:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/

Thanks

[I'm not a A.net screener]

Hi,

In my monitor both appears soft and also lack some contrast. But will be nice to wait a second opinion.

Best,

Vinicius

Alright, thank you for your input.

I made a second edit of one of the 737:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ted-public

Runway28L · Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:27 pm

Here's another photo I'm wondering about

http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/

jelpee · Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:28 pm

N887 : The first looks OK; the second edit is visibly oversharpened.
N744P: looks soft indeed..almost blurry
USAF 00461:looks oversharpened.

Jehan

Runway28L · Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:40 am

jelpee wrote:
N887 : The first looks OK; the second edit is visibly oversharpened.
N744P: looks soft indeed..almost blurry
USAF 00461:looks oversharpened.

Jehan

Ok thank you! I'll go with the first edit of 887NN.

Runway28L · Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:34 pm

Hi again,

I keep running into a problem whenever I am editing and it has to do with image quality. I will go and apply 3-4 passes of USM (Amount: 250% Radius: 0.2) in Photoshop yet the photo appears to have barely changed in quality and it still appears to be soft.

The other way I did it was sharpening in Lightroom (an amount between 40 and 55), transferred the image to Photoshop, applied a layer of smart sharpening (Amount: 100% Radius: 0.4 Noise reduction: 10) and my photo appears way over sharpened. I can't seem to get a balance between the two.

Here are two examples where I've ran into the first problem:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/

I am also shooting all of my photos in RAW format.

I've been unsuccessful in searching everywhere to find a remedy for this. Is there a possible explanation for this? Is it the way I'm taking my photos? Do my camera's settings need to be modified?

jelpee · Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:02 pm

Are you applying sharpening to before or after you resize the image? If you apply it before resizing, it will only be visible when viewed at its original size. In my workflow (entirely in jpeg and in Photoshop Elements 11) I level, crop, resize, adjust brightness, contrast and color) and then sharpen. I find that resizing as the last step results in degradation of image quality. Your images look like they suffer from compression which is impacting the quality and clarity. Hope this helps.

Jehan

Miguel1982 · Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:14 pm

As Jehan pointed out, there are some steps that you can do barely at any time in the process (exposure, contrast, color adjustments) and some others that you want to do once you have resized the image to your final size, such as sharpening and noise reduction. That is only because the downsizing of the image has an important effect on both parameters, as it increases sharpness and reduces noise (to a point).

Also note that if the original image was blurry, even slightly, it will be nearly impossible to find the right sharpening balance. It will easily go from soft to showing jaggies and halos. From the examples you posted, the N851UA seems to suffer from some blur.

Cheers,
Miguel

Runway28L · Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:35 pm

jelpee wrote:
Are you applying sharpening to before or after you resize the image? If you apply it before resizing, it will only be visible when viewed at its original size. In my workflow (entirely in jpeg and in Photoshop Elements 11) I level, crop, resize, adjust brightness, contrast and color) and then sharpen. I find that resizing as the last step results in degradation of image quality. Your images look like they suffer from compression which is impacting the quality and clarity. Hope this helps.

Jehan

Jehan, thank you for your helpful information! To answer your question, I am resizing my images (1200 x 800) and duplicating the original layer before sharpening.

Miguel1982 wrote:
As Jehan pointed out, there are some steps that you can do barely at any time in the process (exposure, contrast, color adjustments) and some others that you want to do once you have resized the image to your final size, such as sharpening and noise reduction. That is only because the downsizing of the image has an important effect on both parameters, as it increases sharpness and reduces noise (to a point).

Also note that if the original image was blurry, even slightly, it will be nearly impossible to find the right sharpening balance. It will easily go from soft to showing jaggies and halos. From the examples you posted, the N851UA seems to suffer from some blur.

Cheers,
Miguel

Thanks, Miguel! Unfortunate that N851UA has blur. I will examine a few other photos I have and see what works.

Runway28L · Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:01 am

Hi again,

Thoughts on theses ones?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236 ... ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236 ... ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236 ... ed-public/

vikkyvik · Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:15 am

N829DN: quality is not good; soft/oversharpened, sky is noisy. Yellow cast.
N815UA: Color is fine, but quality still not good - same soft/oversharpened look and noisy sky.
N301PA: same deal as N815UA, but also looks blurry.

Runway28L · Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:25 am

vikkyvik wrote:
N829DN: quality is not good; soft/oversharpened, sky is noisy. Yellow cast.
N815UA: Color is fine, but quality still not good - same soft/oversharpened look and noisy sky.
N301PA: same deal as N815UA, but also looks blurry.

Ok thank you. As much as it's frustrating, it definitely helps getting honest feedback.

I'm fairly certain at this point that something is up with my camera as most of my shots are not coming out sharp enough. I am going to check my settings again... pretty sure something with the shutter speed or shooting mode that needs to be changed as I'm prone to motion blur and it doesn't really help that I don't ever use my tripod to take photographs, only for videos since it's a hassle to transport and set up.

vikkyvik · Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:36 am

Runway28L wrote:
vikkyvik wrote:
N829DN: quality is not good; soft/oversharpened, sky is noisy. Yellow cast.
N815UA: Color is fine, but quality still not good - same soft/oversharpened look and noisy sky.
N301PA: same deal as N815UA, but also looks blurry.

Ok thank you. As much as it's frustrating, it definitely helps getting honest feedback.

I'm fairly certain at this point that something is up with my camera as most of my shots are not coming out sharp enough. I am going to check my settings again... pretty sure something with the shutter speed or shooting mode that needs to be changed as I'm prone to motion blur and it doesn't really help that I don't ever use my tripod to take photographs, only for videos since it's a hassle to transport and set up.

If you're willing, upload a non-resized, unedited version of one of those shots and post the link. We could help you out in diagnosing the problem.

Runway28L · Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:09 am

vikkyvik wrote:
If you're willing, upload a non-resized, unedited version of one of those shots and post the link. We could help you out in diagnosing the problem.

Alright, here are the original versions. I'll just include N851UA and N301PA for the sake of the conditions I shot them in.

N851UA: http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/

N301PA: http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/

vikkyvik · Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:33 pm

Runway28L wrote:
vikkyvik wrote:
If you're willing, upload a non-resized, unedited version of one of those shots and post the link. We could help you out in diagnosing the problem.

Alright, here are the original versions. I'll just include N851UA and N301PA for the sake of the conditions I shot them in.

N851UA: http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/

N301PA: http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/

I can only open those to about 1400 pixels. Is that the size of the original images?

airkas1 · Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:07 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
I can only open those to about 1400 pixels. Is that the size of the original images?

I can see them 1620x1080 (which Flickr indicates is the original).

Conditions seem to be ideal, but they look blurry and compressed. Not sure what the cause for that could be, other than maybe some in-camera processing?

vikkyvik · Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:27 pm

airkas1 wrote:
vikkyvik wrote:
I can only open those to about 1400 pixels. Is that the size of the original images?

I can see them 1620x1080 (which Flickr indicates is the original).

Conditions seem to be ideal, but they look blurry and compressed. Not sure what the cause for that could be, other than maybe some in-camera processing?

Sorry, you're right, they are larger than 1400 (forgot the size of this monitor).

Still, if they're getting compressed on Flickr from full-size, that could explain the way they look.

Runway28L · Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:31 pm

airkas1 wrote:
vikkyvik wrote:
I can only open those to about 1400 pixels. Is that the size of the original images?

I can see them 1620x1080 (which Flickr indicates is the original).

Conditions seem to be ideal, but they look blurry and compressed. Not sure what the cause for that could be, other than maybe some in-camera processing?

I have noticed compression in some of my photos, even in some of the original files, and most of them (if they weren't already) compressed after editing them, despite me following the correct workflow and resizing before sharpening.

Also, the RAW format on my camera (which I use 100% of the time) automatically disables every extra feature in my settings such as D-Lighting.

I am heading out later today to get more photos. This time I'll try to go through and disable every unnecessary feature while also shooting at a manually-adjusted shutter speed and the lowest ISO setting to test my luck.

yousaf465 · Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:54 pm

Flickr usually compresses your photos even at original size.

airkas1 · Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:02 pm

If it's sunny, try shooting at F8 and ISO 100. On such days, those are my go-to settings. See what you can come up with. If it's still iffy, motion blur would be a next candidate. If you want, use www.wetransfer.com to send the original JPG to airkas1[at]airliners.net. That way, no compression will take place and I can check the original file to see what's up.

Runway28L · Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:55 am

Alright everyone... unfortunately the lighting today when I went wasn't very good and were supposed to have a lengthy stretch of bad weather so it may take me a week to get a new batch of photos.

Kas, I'll try the settings that you suggested. I'll then send the original files to you directly through the link you provided.

vikkyvik · Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:32 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Also, the RAW format on my camera (which I use 100% of the time) automatically disables every extra feature in my settings such as D-Lighting.

That's the intent of RAW, so that you can apply settings as you like after taking the shot.

For A.net purposes, D-Lighting should be left off. It introduces halos around aircraft that will cause your photo to be rejected.

Runway28L wrote:
I have noticed compression in some of my photos, even in some of the original files

There shouldn't really be any compression in a RAW file. It's probably something else.

Runway28L · Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:56 pm

I am aware that Flickr and other sites tend to compress images. I would like to post my images directly in replies but for some reason Mac platforms do not allow images to appear in here and they just show up as a "?" so Flickr is the only way I can share them.

Ok so here's a photo that I feel pretty confident about:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/

This one I'm really not so sure about. The lighting wasn't the best yet I didn't want to over edit and potentially ruin the image:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236@ ... ed-public/

airkas1 · Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:19 pm

I would suggest uploading them and the sharing the url here. That way we can view them without interference of Flickr quality. You can always delete them from the queue if they turn out to have flaws.

Runway28L · Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:21 am

airkas1 wrote:
I would suggest uploading them and the sharing the url here. That way we can view them without interference of Flickr quality. You can always delete them from the queue if they turn out to have flaws.

https://www.airliners.net/user/photo-cor ... to/4795367

https://www.airliners.net/user/photo-cor ... to/4795369

HarryLi · Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:44 am

Those URLs are not the photos' URL.These will lead us to our Photo Corner. Would you please check it again and copy the correct URLs here ?

Cheers,
Harry

Runway28L · Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:47 am

HarryLi wrote:
Those URLs are not the photos' URL.These will lead us to our Photo Corner. Would you please check it again and copy the correct URLs here ?

Cheers,
Harry

Ok my apologies. Is it alright if I just give out the photo ID's instead?

#4795369
#4795367

HarryLi · Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:41 am

Runway28L wrote:
HarryLi wrote:
Those URLs are not the photos' URL.These will lead us to our Photo Corner. Would you please check it again and copy the correct URLs here ?

Cheers,
Harry

Ok my apologies. Is it alright if I just give out the photo ID's instead?

#4795369
#4795367

I think IDs would be ok for Screeners and Head-screeners here. But , most of us can not see it through the ID.
You can right click the the photos that you want to show here and then find the option -" Image Adress ".

airkas1 · Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:43 pm

I could only find the 747: https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... ff311dda3a

It's quite blurry and very underexposed. Very poor quality, sorry. It's not going to make the cut.

Runway28L · Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:25 pm

airkas1 wrote:
I could only find the 747: https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... ff311dda3a

It's quite blurry and very underexposed. Very poor quality, sorry. It's not going to make the cut.

Ok didn't think it would. Was just curious since it was a rare visitor at my local airport.

Runway28L · Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:34 pm

I went through my camera roll and found a few photos I took 2 years ago with my 75-200mm. I immediately noticed a major difference in quality compared to the ones taken by my 70-300mm.

I've gone and edited them and two of them are in the queue.

Photo ID #4797103 and #4797095

For non-screeners I apologize that I can only give the ID and not the proper link. My computer isn't giving me the option to copy the image address

airkas1 · Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:10 pm

If you go to your Photo Corner --> "Screening" tab. Click on the photo. It now appears larger. Right-click the image and copy the URL.

-----
https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... 1566727480
https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... 56212bf3ad

Both are blurry and not the greatest quality. The Southwest also seems exceptionally soft. Both will not make it, sorry.

Runway28L · Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:30 am

airkas1 wrote:
If you go to your Photo Corner --> "Screening" tab. Click on the photo. It now appears larger. Right-click the image and copy the URL.

-----
https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... 1566727480
https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... 56212bf3ad

Both are blurry and not the greatest quality. The Southwest also seems exceptionally soft. Both will not make it, sorry.

Ok thanks for the feedback.

What about this one? https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... 6c71917346

Runway28L · Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:01 pm

Also, if most of my images are blurry how are any of you able to see it? I haven't been able to locate any blurriness (though softness for the most part, yes) before editing unless it's pretty obvious, otherwise I'd just ditch it.

I'll just leave my normal workflow down below as follows:

Lightroom Presets:
Contrast: 45
Highlights: -10
Shadows: 45
Whites: Depends, usually between -15 and +5
Blacks: Between -20 and +5
Clarity: +2
Color Noise Reduction: +95
Detail: +75

Photoshop:
1. Adjust Image Size (1200x800)
2. Duplicate Layer -> Equalize (to check for dust) -> Delete background copy
3. Duplicate Layer -> Magic Wand, then Inverse and expand by 5
4. Smart Sharpen 80% at 1.0 radius
5. Combo of Eraser and Sharpening tools
6. Flatten Image
7. Save as JPEG

I really don't know how my image quality seems to deteriorate after editing, especially post-Sharpening. I've tried watching many tutorials online and they've hardly done anything to help.

airkas1 · Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:18 pm

That latest Southwest you linked is also blurry and quite poor quality. The blurriness is quite apparent for a trained eye (no offense meant). I'll look at your workflow more in detail tomorrow.

Runway28L · Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:49 pm

airkas1 wrote:
That latest Southwest you linked is also blurry and quite poor quality. The blurriness is quite apparent for a trained eye (no offense meant). I'll look at your workflow more in detail tomorrow.

Ok thank you! It probably depends on what platform I look at the image on. It looks ok on my phone and desktop, but worse on my Mac. Just my observation.

HarryLi · Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:16 pm

Would you like to have a check to the Quality Level when you save them after all Editing ? Especially LR because if the Quality began very poor at LR it will become worse at PS. Make sure that PS Saving Quality is 12 ( the Best) and LR also Is the best.
Besides, what re-size way did you use in PS ? The default setting or you choose others ? Maybe it will influence more or less.
All of the above are just my assumptions.

Cheers,
Harry

Runway28L · Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:45 am

HarryLi wrote:
Would you like to have a check to the Quality Level when you save them after all Editing ? Especially LR because if the Quality began very poor at LR it will become worse at PS. Make sure that PS Saving Quality is 12 ( the Best) and LR also Is the best.
Besides, what re-size way did you use in PS ? The default setting or you choose others ? Maybe it will influence more or less.
All of the above are just my assumptions.

Cheers,
Harry

Hi Harry. I resize my images at the following (in PS of course):

Image -> Image Size

Fit to: Original Size
1200px x 800px
Resolution: 300 px/in
Re sample: Bicubic Sharper (reduction)

I import my images directly from Lightroom to PS via the "Edit in Photoshop" option.

Also, I indeed save my images at a Quality level of 12.

Runway28L · Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:58 pm

Hi everyone,

Has anyone used Dropbox to share images here? What are all of your thoughts on it? Is it really better than Flickr?

airkas1 · Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:59 pm

I used Dropbox in the past and in my opinion it was better than Flickr. But since they changed their policies, I've been unable to link photos using their software.

Runway28L · Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:34 pm

airkas1 wrote:
I used Dropbox in the past and in my opinion it was better than Flickr. But since they changed their policies, I've been unable to link photos using their software.

Ok I'll just stick with what I'm currently doing to share images.

I took a new batch of photos from the past two days and changed my sharpening technique. Here are two that I completed:

https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... 9dca667f02
https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/air ... f5481033c5

jelpee · Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:31 pm

Both images appear over exposed, over sharpened, blurry and seems to be showing signs of compression. Wonder if you are losing image quality when uploading?

Jehan

Runway28L · Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:58 pm

jelpee wrote:
Both images appear over exposed, over sharpened, blurry and seems to be showing signs of compression. Wonder if you are losing image quality when uploading?

Jehan

Ugh I really have no idea what the problem is. I've watched nearly every tutorial and I don't get the same result as anyone else.

Would it help if I transferred the RAW files straight from my camera to my computer? I am currently transferring them to my phone via WiFi which is linked to my camera roll on my computer.

Runway28L · Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:02 pm

Also, I am strongly considering seeing someone to look at my camera and it's settings and see if there's anything unusual. I've also looked for information regarding this to no avail.

spompert · Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:32 pm

Hi, it can be interesting to place some originals here or email them to me to have a look at them. I'm wondering if it's really the camera settings or the editing that needs improvements. I'm glad to help btw. Greets Stefan

HarryLi · Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:16 am

I agree with Jehan's opinion that they all seem to be suffered from Compression Problem. If you can would you please share some RAW file to us so that we can see more Info about them.

Runway28L · Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:30 am

Here are the original RAW files guys:

N746UW: http://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=IMG_6828.JPG
N838AW: http://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=IMG_6873.JPG

jelpee · Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:07 am

I cannot access the RAW files for which you have shown the links. It takes me to my own Dropbox account. As Stefan as offered as well, if you can send an original as a PM I'd be happy to look at it as well and try an edit for you.

Jehan

HarryLi · Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:32 am

I can't access neither.You can send them to us via PM or Email.

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