glidepath73
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Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Sat May 07, 2005 6:44 am

Hi!
I've flew recently with Germanwings STR-MAD-STR. Again, I realized that in the middle of the cabin panels, black triangles are visible. Two on each side, more or less located were the wing/fuselage connections supposed to be.
Doese anybody have more information for what those triangles are? I think it's for the maintenance crew, to identify the certain panels. They remove them and do some checks on the fuselage. But what do they exactly check there?

Thanks for your information!

Regards,
Patrick
Aviation! That rocks...
 
danman
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Sat May 07, 2005 7:03 am

They are the positions where the Flight Crew can examine the Slats and Flaps visually, if necessary.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Sat May 07, 2005 4:15 pm

Quoting Danman (Reply 1):
They are the positions where the Flight Crew can examine the Slats and Flaps visually, if necessary.

Any Pics of these panels.Difficult to Visualise.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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IFixPlanes
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Sat May 07, 2005 10:31 pm

Quoting Maintenance Manual (Reply nil):
A visual check of the position of the flaps[slats] can be done through the windows in the fuselage that are adjacent to the flaps[slats]. The windows to be used are identified by a brown triangle on the sidewall panel above them.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 2):
Any Pics of these panels.Difficult to Visualise.
regds
MEL

Hi MEL, especially for you:  duck 

Ingo
never tell an engineer he is wrong ;-)
 
glidepath73
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Sat May 07, 2005 11:45 pm

Hey guys,

thanks a lot!

And I guessed it had something to do with the fuselage/wings connections!
Thanks a lot!
How often, or in which case is the crew checking the flaps/slats optical?

Regards,
Patrick
Aviation! That rocks...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Sun May 08, 2005 12:21 am

Quoting IFixPlanes (Reply 3):
Hi MEL, especially for you:

Thanks Ifixplanes. that def looks like a Red Triangle  Smile
I was referring to a pic of the panel with the "black triangles".
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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IFixPlanes
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Sun May 08, 2005 12:35 am

Quoting Glidepath73 (Reply 4):
How often, or in which case is the crew checking the flaps/slats optical?

Hi Patrick
Only if they have non or improbable indication.

BTW: the A300/A310 have a ┴ for the position to see the little pin that indicates that the MLG is down and locked.

Ingo
never tell an engineer he is wrong ;-)
 
exitrowaisle
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Tue May 10, 2005 4:25 am

I saw this question in Airliners magazine once, I believe. The triangles were not to show where the crew could visually inspect the wings. They were to mark locations in the cabin where emergency lifelines were stowed in the overhead bins.
 
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IFixPlanes
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Tue May 10, 2005 8:17 am

Quoting ExitRowAisle (Reply 7):
I saw this question in Airliners magazine once, I believe. The triangles were not to show where the crew could visually inspect the wings. They were to mark locations in the cabin where emergency lifelines were stowed in the overhead bins.

So the Maintenance Manual i quoted in reply # 3 must be wrong.  eek 

Ingo
never tell an engineer he is wrong ;-)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Tue May 10, 2005 5:54 pm

Any pic on the actual panels.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
HPforLife
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Thu May 12, 2005 7:15 am

I know for America West our Inflight Crews use them to differentiate Cabins A, B, and C. Mainly used for weight and balance purposes, say the captain calls and says he needs 5 people moved from Cabin A to Cabin C the flight attendants use the triangles as a marker to move people either in front or behind the triangles. Cabin A is anything in front of the first triangle, Cabin B is anything between the two triangles, and Cabin C is anything behind the second triangle.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Thu May 12, 2005 12:59 pm

Quoting HPforLife (Reply 10):
know for America West our Inflight Crews use them to differentiate Cabins A, B, and C.

Which Aircraft Type.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jfkaua
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Fri May 13, 2005 5:01 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew Bennison




_________==========
 
glidepath73
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Fri May 13, 2005 6:11 am

On the pic above, you can clearly see the marks. But for what is it really used? There are some confusing informations. But all of them would make sense...  Confused
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IFixPlanes
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Fri May 13, 2005 7:41 pm

Quoting Glidepath73 (Reply 13):
But for what is it really used?

Hi Glidepath73
I only can repeat my quoting out of the A320 maintenance manual:
"A visual check of the position of the flaps[slats] can be done through the windows in the fuselage that are adjacent to the flaps[slats]. The windows to be used are identified by a brown triangle on the sidewall panel above them."

To identify the cabin areas according weight and balance you use the seatrow numbers.

Ingo
never tell an engineer he is wrong ;-)
 
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longhauler
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Sat May 14, 2005 11:23 am

Every Airbus aircraft I have flown has had them, the A319/320/321 I presently fly, as well as the A300, A310 and A340. The triangles mark the position of the leading and trailing edge of the wing with relation to the fuselage. In practical use, it is to determine which windows would give the best view of the wing (for deicing) or for flap/slat position. This is from the A319/320/321 Flight Crew Operating Manual.
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Brick
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Tue May 17, 2005 12:39 am

Airliners magazine later printed a correction that the triangle DOES NOT mark the location of emergency equipment. It marks the best location for the crew to verify the position of the flaps/slats in the unlikely event of a flap/slat disagreement warning light in the cockpit. I believe the Airbus was quoted as saying they have never heard of anyone ever having to use these marks before.
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Brick
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RE: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Tue May 17, 2005 12:49 am

This question was asked in the July/August 2003 (vol no. 82) issue of Airliners. The incorrect answer was provided in this issue.

There was a correction printed in the Nov/Dec 2003 (vol no. 84) with the correct answer (page 13). In the correction it was mentioned that these triangles first appeared on the A300-B2. These triangles are also used for a night inspection of the flaps/slats as finding the best viewing angle during daylight hours is not a problem.
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Aguilalatina
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Re: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:51 am

Sorry guys but there is no needs in an advance new generation aircraft to check the position of the leading edges or flaps from the passenger windows, since we have in the ECAM slats flaps digital indicators.
Also we have in the cockpit ice detectors, this in case of icing conditions, I know in the winter season we have to do sometimes a pretake off evaluation check to check if there is any ice built up in our wings, but there is anything in the FCOM is saying to go back to the black triangles to check if there is any icing or to check the position of the leading edges and flaps!
This two sets of triangles are for weight and balance purposes, the first set of triangles are located to differentiate between zone OA-OB-OC if you check the weight and balance load sheet, you will see the passenger cabin distribution zones, they are 3 and are marked in the passenger cabin with black dots, this to make last minute changes on the % of CG, for quick determination for the crew, to shift passengers from BETWEEN ZONE OA-OB -OC. The first sets of triangles ZONE OA mark raw from 1 to 10 (first 60 pax) the second sets of triangles ZONE OB mark raw from 11 to 21 (second 50 pax) and ZONE OC is the raw from 21 to 31 last 60 pax this behind the second set of black triangles. The pax raw seat configuration maight change, depends on model and airplane configuration, for example if there is first class or not or VIP. The one I explaned here is for version A-320-200 VERSIÓN 180 YC
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:15 am

Aguilalatina wrote:
Sorry guys but there is no needs in an advance new generation aircraft to check the position of the leading edges or flaps from the passenger windows, since we have in the ECAM slats flaps digital indicators.
Also we have in the cockpit ice detectors, this in case of icing conditions, I know in the winter season we have to do sometimes a pretake off evaluation check to check if there is any ice built up in our wings, but there is anything in the FCOM is saying to go back to the black triangles to check if there is any icing or to check the position of the leading edges and flaps!
This two sets of triangles are for weight and balance purposes, the first set of triangles are located to differentiate between zone OA-OB-OC if you check the weight and balance load sheet, you will see the passenger cabin distribution zones, they are 3 and are marked in the passenger cabin with black dots, this to make last minute changes on the % of CG, for quick determination for the crew, to shift passengers from BETWEEN ZONE OA-OB -OC. The first sets of triangles ZONE OA mark raw from 1 to 10 (first 60 pax) the second sets of triangles ZONE OB mark raw from 11 to 21 (second 50 pax) and ZONE OC is the raw from 21 to 31 last 60 pax this behind the second set of black triangles. The pax raw seat configuration maight change, depends on model and airplane configuration, for example if there is first class or not or VIP. The one I explaned here is for version A-320-200 VERSIÓN 180 YC


You do realize that you are talking to group who posted this topic 12 years ago..??!!
 
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IFixPlanes
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Re: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:45 am

RetiredWeasel wrote:
You do realize that you are talking to group who posted this topic 12 years ago..??!!

even if it is 12 years old - it is still correct.
@Aguilalatina: you are wrong!
Read my Post #4.
... and it is still in the AMM.
BTW: I am a mechanic since mor than 30 years and type rated on A320Fam.
You sound like an MS armchair pilot...
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trijetsonly
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Re: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:53 pm

Aguilalatina wrote:
This two sets of triangles are for weight and balance purposes, the first set of triangles are located to differentiate between zone OA-OB-OC if you check the weight and balance load sheet, you will see the passenger cabin distribution zones, they are 3 and are marked in the passenger cabin with black dots, this to make last minute changes on the % of CG, for quick determination for the crew, to shift passengers from BETWEEN ZONE OA-OB -OC.


I'm not aware of any airline with only 3 passenger trim compartments in the A320.
Most use 7 (0A to 0G) in the A320 to keep the curtailments low and the operational limits wide.
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longhauler
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Re: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:48 pm

trijetsonly wrote:
I'm not aware of any airline with only 3 passenger trim compartments in the A320.
Most use 7 (0A to 0G) in the A320 to keep the curtailments low and the operational limits wide.

Where I fly, we use only three zones for W&B on the A320.
(As well as the A319 and A321).
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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zeke
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Re: Black Triangles In A318/319/329/321 Cabin

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:38 am

longhauler wrote:
Where I fly, we use only three zones for W&B on the A320.
(As well as the A319 and A321).


Same here, zones A,B, C
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