RoyalCopenhagen
Topic Author
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 10:28 am

Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Sun May 26, 2019 10:37 am

Hi guys!

I am new here at airliners, I actually just created my user to ask this question. But I plan to stay and use this on a daily basis, seems you have a lot of interesting discussions in here. Nice!

Not sure if I placed this question in the right forum, but this was my best guess.

I recently (1 month ago yay) passed my CPL exam, and is now the holder of both CPL, MEIR and frozen ATPL.

I have a friend who has his own aircraft. A small piper. He has a PPL. In the past I used to fly with him, and we had some very nice trips together. Well, now that I have my own license, my main question comes. Can I block hours in this aircraft, while he is doing the flying as PIC? Or how does it work, when it's a single pilot airplane?

Best regards
RC
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 19216
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Sun May 26, 2019 11:00 am

In general, since it is a one crew aircraft, you may not both log hours. Only the pilot flying, which in a single crew aircraft would be the PIC, may log hours.

There are exceptions. For example, in the US you may both log hours if you are doing simulated IMC with one of you as PIC and the other as safety pilot. Or if you're an instructor and performing instruction.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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zeke
Posts: 13645
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Sun May 26, 2019 12:05 pm

Your question is very disappointing reflection on FAA standards if you have just obtained your CPL.

As SB said you can only log time if you are a crew member, otherwise you are a passenger. It does not matter if it’s a 747 or a PA38.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Lrockeagle
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:40 am

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Sun May 26, 2019 1:30 pm

zeke wrote:
Your question is very disappointing reflection on FAA standards if you have just obtained your CPL.

As SB said you can only log time if you are a crew member, otherwise you are a passenger. It does not matter if it’s a 747 or a PA38.

I had the same reaction. When myself and a friend got our ppl at the same time one of the first things we did was start safety piloting for each other to build hours. I’m surprised someone wouldn’t know the regs about when you can and can’t log hours
Lrockeagle
14 years ago

I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 2980
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Sun May 26, 2019 1:42 pm

Ground instruction in the FAA World is abysmal. At most, the test is taught, at worst, pilots memorize the question bank.

GF
 
RoyalCopenhagen
Topic Author
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 10:28 am

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Sun May 26, 2019 3:51 pm

Hey guys. Thanks, and feeling a bit sad about you nagging on me regarding hour knowledge.. I have a EASA license, so hour building kinda weren’t the biggest thing here. Anyway I know I should preferably know it, but sometimes memory slips, haha. Thanks for feed though
 
Max Q
Posts: 7422
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Mon May 27, 2019 8:06 am

RoyalCopenhagen wrote:
Hey guys. Thanks, and feeling a bit sad about you nagging on me regarding hour knowledge.. I have a EASA license, so hour building kinda weren’t the biggest thing here. Anyway I know I should preferably know it, but sometimes memory slips, haha. Thanks for feed though




There’s always a few people here that like to aggrandize themselves at the expense of posters when they ask a very reasonable question such as yours


By the way congratulations, good luck in your career and keep on asking questions,
most people will be responsive and helpful


Ignore the rest
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Mon May 27, 2019 10:00 am

LOL at the posters trying to criticize FAA standards while he has an EASA license. Cathay pilots living up to their reputation. MaxQ is correct. Aviation certainly attracts more than its fair share of a-holes.
 
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zeke
Posts: 13645
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Mon May 27, 2019 10:55 am

KAUSpilot wrote:
LOL at the posters trying to criticize FAA standards while he has an EASA license. Cathay pilots living up to their reputation. MaxQ is correct. Aviation certainly attracts more than its fair share of a-holes.


I mistakenly assumed they were in the US (most people here are), it is rare for people to have a private aircraft in Europe.

Call me an a-hole if you like, been called a lot worse on anonymous forums but strangely not to my face. Earning a CPL used to actually mean something, someone achieved a standard where I would be happy for them to fly my family about. With those qualifications they are supposedly able to take your family up in a multi engine aircraft in IMC and get paid for it, but does not know how to log flight time ?

I don’t care if they an FAA or EASA licence, a person who just “earned” their CPL should know how to read a weather forecast, prepare and file a flight plan, fly an aircraft, make a radio call, and know how to log flight time without having to ask a question on a forum like this. What were they doing for the last 200+ hours ?
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
BlueberryWheats
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:46 am

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Mon May 27, 2019 12:05 pm

RoyalCopenhagen wrote:
Hi guys!..


Congratulations! May you enjoy many clear skies and smooth landings.

zeke wrote:
I mistakenly assumed they were in the US (most people here are), it is rare for people to have a private aircraft in Europe.


And that's why you should never assume.

zeke wrote:
Call me an a-hole if you like, been called a lot worse on anonymous forums but strangely not to my face.


Well, it is easier to be an a-hole on an anonymous forum. ;)
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 13645
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Mon May 27, 2019 12:28 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:

Well, it is easier to be an a-hole on an anonymous forum. ;)


I did find it ironic that a person who made disparaging remarks about me for assuming someone had an FAA licence themselves made assumptions about me ;)

It doesn't matter where the person if from, if they have a CPL they should know how to log hours, it is a fundament legal requirement everywhere.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
N766UA
Posts: 8198
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Tue May 28, 2019 6:42 pm

Generally speaking, you can only log hours when you are the pilot flying the airplane.

And don’t feel bad about asking; I’ve gotten in arguments with guys who have thousands of hours about when and how to log time. The rules are sometimes a little vague and everyone’s trying to interpret them to their benefit. Congrats on your license!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26485
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Wed May 29, 2019 4:18 am

In the US, you can log PIC time if you are safety pilot for another pilot who is flying simulated IMC, as can they for you. It is done a lot by pilots who are working on their instrument and commercial. Also, an instructor giving dual instruction can log PIC time, even when they are instructing someone with a PPL.

I don't know how that works where you live, but that's how it does in the US.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
e38
Posts: 609
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: Block hours in a small piston aircraft

Wed May 29, 2019 5:31 pm

RoyalCopenhagen, I think you have a valid question concerning how flight time is logged. Hopefully it has been answered by many of the above posts.

Slightly off topic, but HOW flying time is logged can also be confusing. Here are a few examples . . .

1. When I was working on my private pilot certificate in a Cessna 172 (in the United States), flying time was logged with reference to the Hobbs meter.
2. When I was in the military (in the United States), flying time was logged from brake release (or power up) at the beginning of the takeoff roll until main gear touchdown on landing (plus five minutes). We then had a chart to convert minutes to decimal point such that all our flying time was recorded in decimal format (i.e. 3.8 hours flying time).
3. When I applied to work at a major airline in the U.S., the application stated that if flying time was logged according to military rules, in order to standardize our flying time with the flying time of civilian applicants, we were allowed to add 15 minutes, or 0.3 hours, to every flight we logged in the military. The airline said that would put us on an equally competitive basis with the other applicants.
4. At the company where I currently work (not the same airline as referenced in example # 3), all our flying time is recorded using "block" time--the time from release of the parking brake just prior to pushback until the parking brake is set upon arrival at the gate. All my flying time is now recorded by the company in hours and minutes format--not decimal format!
What's even more confusing, while in the military, some of the flying time was recorded as "First Pilot" and "Auxiliary Pilot" depending on how many pilots were aboard the aircraft (i.e., a training mission on a transport-type aircraft with one instructor and multiple captains/first officers or aircraft commanders/co-pilots practicing instrument approaches and touch and go landings). Wow, was that ever challenging trying to figure out what portions, if any, of "first pilot" were pilot-in-command and second-in-command time, and if "auxiliary pilot" time could even be considered valid flight time, when filling out an application!

My best advice--be familiar with the applicable rules governing the logging of flight time in your country, and in lieu of specific rules that may not apply to a particular situation, use common sense, good judgment, and never artificially inflate your flying time. Depending on your career goals, you may need to justify your flight hours at a later time and any appearance that flying time was inflated would be grounds to disqualify you from further consideration.

Best wishes and welcome to Airliners.net, and congratulations on your new rating.

e38

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