What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
Perhaps I suffer from a lack of imagination, but if we have the 797 as roughly a 757-200 sized aircraft that could fly a little but further with more efficiency, which routes are the most prized for the taking that aren’t currently operated nonstop? Like would we really see something like Boston to Lyon? Cincinnati to Munich? New York to Pisa? Or is it far more modest than that? What are some examples?
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- BWIAirport
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Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
It mostly depends on who orders it. If AF or KL (or even DL) gets the 797, you're going to see a lot more secondary cities to CDG or AMS, for example. Same goes with EI and DUB, BA and LHR/LGW, etc. If/when DL orders it, you'll see a lot more European cities connected to JFK. You could also see them expanding southward into South America from ATL. Further, I could absolutely see them tapping into the secondary market in HNL, setting up a 797 base there and adding HNL-RNO/BOI/TUS/ABQ and the like. But maybe we're both a little too imaginative.
I'm certainly hoping it starts to connect some dots on BWI's European map. From what I've heard (rumblings, nothing substantial) it sounds like EI might send the A321LR to BWI when it arrives. I could see any combination of CDG, MAD, MUC, CPH, and AMS depending on who orders it.
I'm certainly hoping it starts to connect some dots on BWI's European map. From what I've heard (rumblings, nothing substantial) it sounds like EI might send the A321LR to BWI when it arrives. I could see any combination of CDG, MAD, MUC, CPH, and AMS depending on who orders it.
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- JayinKitsap
- Posts: 1093
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Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
The B738 and the A321 has opened up lots of pairs in the 6 hour length, look to the 797 to do the same out a few hours longer.
A lot of spokes are just beyond direct range but easy to do via a NB hub. The spoke becomes a mini hub with direct flights to 26 destinations, up from 16 a decade ago.
A lot of spokes are just beyond direct range but easy to do via a NB hub. The spoke becomes a mini hub with direct flights to 26 destinations, up from 16 a decade ago.
Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
BWIAirport wrote:It mostly depends on who orders it. If AF or KL (or even DL) gets the 797, you're going to see a lot more secondary cities to CDG or AMS, for example. Same goes with EI and DUB, BA and LHR/LGW, etc. If/when DL orders it, you'll see a lot more European cities connected to JFK. You could also see them expanding southward into South America from ATL. Further, I could absolutely see them tapping into the secondary market in HNL, setting up a 797 base there and adding HNL-RNO/BOI/TUS/ABQ and the like. But maybe we're both a little too imaginative.
I'm certainly hoping it starts to connect some dots on BWI's European map. From what I've heard (rumblings, nothing substantial) it sounds like EI might send the A321LR to BWI when it arrives. I could see any combination of CDG, MAD, MUC, CPH, and AMS depending on who orders it.
It will open some new routes, but I don’t see a huge move. DL, AF and KLM are modernizing their WB fleet and those planes are for hub-hub flights.
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- TTailedTiger
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Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
While it wouldn't be a new route, if the 797 has enough range for SEA-Asia, I could see Alaska ordering some to start their own flights. I think the DOT would be willing to give a new entrant like Alaska a HND slot.
Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
Pudelhund wrote:New York to Pisa?
DL already launched that flight in 2007 and flew it off&on (seasonally) until 2017.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
Hawaiian could do dozens of new thin routes that couldn't fill an A330 or 767-300ER. More Australian destinations, more destinations to the east coast of the US. Multiple destinations to China.
Qantas could operate international flights to Asia from Adelaide, Canberra and Hobart. Perth can do direct to New Zealand. Less traffic passing through Sydney.
Qantas could operate international flights to Asia from Adelaide, Canberra and Hobart. Perth can do direct to New Zealand. Less traffic passing through Sydney.
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- jetblueguy22
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Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
Maybe I’m a pessimist, but I see the same thing happening with the NMA that happened with the 787. Boeing and even the airlines presented it as an opportunity to open up point to point routes, but it’s stayed on relatively normal hub to hub or hub to spoke routes. I don’t think a whole new range of destinations will come on. It will just replace the planes already on those routes
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
jetblueguy22 wrote:Maybe I’m a pessimist, but I see the same thing happening with the NMA that happened with the 787. Boeing and even the airlines presented it as an opportunity to open up point to point routes, but it’s stayed on relatively normal hub to hub or hub to spoke routes. I don’t think a whole new range of destinations will come on. It will just replace the planes already on those routes
Not this again. They did not literally mean point-to-point like FAT-COR. It was a figure of speech meaning that the 787 would allow many new non-stops to be flown economically that bypassed large hubs.
The 787 has opened up LOTS of new routes. In some cases the routes started with a 787 to develop them and then taken over by a larger airplane (e.g. AUS-LHR).
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- TheEuphorian
- Posts: 144
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Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
In Asia:
BKK-HKD
DEL-DPS
SUB-KIX
MDC-NRT
KNO-DXB
NRT-KBV
MLE-PUS
BKK-HKD
DEL-DPS
SUB-KIX
MDC-NRT
KNO-DXB
NRT-KBV
MLE-PUS
Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
I'd love to see more US-Eastern Europe. Maybe even UAs return to Moscow! 
I think we'd also see (as far as the US3 are concerned):
AA:
MIA-tertiary South America (nonstop Asuncion, Mendoza and the like)
MIA-West Africa
JFK-Helsinki/secondary EU
PHL- see above
DFW-secondary Latin America
ORD-secondary western Europe
DL-ATL/DTW/JFK/MSP-secondary western Europe (connecting dots really, seasonal routes becoming year round)
JFK/ATL-PRG (contingent on AF/KL making their rumored team building with OK)
ATL-secondary LatAm
DTW-gru returning (the DTW crowd owes me on that one)
JFK-LED (most unlikely scenario but I see DL as more likely to go to LED than the others)
UA:
EWR-eastern Europe, maybe even year round PRG and a return to Moscow (my pipe dream)
IAD: connecting dots already served by EWR that have connection potential, West Africa (return to LOS and ACC,)
ORD: see above
*PIPEDREAM: IAD/IAH-LFE-JNB/CPT with 5th freedom rights*
IAH: return to CDG, start MAD/BCN/MXP/FCO as proposed by CO pre-787, secondary South America
SFO/LAX: maybe Fiji
*PIPEDREAM: if the govt ever allows TWOV, UA could make GUM a mean Oz-East Asia connection point*
I think we'd also see (as far as the US3 are concerned):
AA:
MIA-tertiary South America (nonstop Asuncion, Mendoza and the like)
MIA-West Africa
JFK-Helsinki/secondary EU
PHL- see above
DFW-secondary Latin America
ORD-secondary western Europe
DL-ATL/DTW/JFK/MSP-secondary western Europe (connecting dots really, seasonal routes becoming year round)
JFK/ATL-PRG (contingent on AF/KL making their rumored team building with OK)
ATL-secondary LatAm
DTW-gru returning (the DTW crowd owes me on that one)
JFK-LED (most unlikely scenario but I see DL as more likely to go to LED than the others)
UA:
EWR-eastern Europe, maybe even year round PRG and a return to Moscow (my pipe dream)
IAD: connecting dots already served by EWR that have connection potential, West Africa (return to LOS and ACC,)
ORD: see above
*PIPEDREAM: IAD/IAH-LFE-JNB/CPT with 5th freedom rights*
IAH: return to CDG, start MAD/BCN/MXP/FCO as proposed by CO pre-787, secondary South America
SFO/LAX: maybe Fiji
*PIPEDREAM: if the govt ever allows TWOV, UA could make GUM a mean Oz-East Asia connection point*
When wasn't America great?
The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
I think the NMA will enable thin route scissor hubs, S.Am/E.Asia with the pivot at HNL. Given a choice of LAX (and several extra hours of travel time without counting waiting for a gate and blowing a connection) or HNL as a connection....
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=scl-hnl-hnd&MS=bm&DU=mi
vs.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=scl-lax-hnd&MS=bm&DU=mi
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=scl-hnl-hnd&MS=bm&DU=mi
vs.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=scl-lax-hnd&MS=bm&DU=mi
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- JayinKitsap
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Re: What are the city pairs that the anticipated NMA will open up?
4200 nm from HNL has all of North America except NY and New England, Guam, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, and Coastal China.
4200 nm from BOS has Alaska, North America, half of South America, and all of Europe
4200 nm from DXB - All of Europe, Asia, and Africa.
4200 nm from KIX - All of Asia and Australia
4200 nm from SIN - All of Asia, Australia, and most of the Middle East.
4200 nm from MUC - Nearly all of Asia and Africa, Eastern US & Canada
4200 nm from DEL - All of Asia, Europe, and most of Africa.
4200 nm from KEF - All of North America & Europe, the Middle East.
4200 nm from CKG - Asia, Australia, Middle East, and half of Europe
4200 nm from Moscow - All of Europe and Asia, half of Africa.
4200 nm from MAN - most of North America, Africa, Russia, and Middle East, including India
So just using NB's and the NMA any of the above could hub to those destinations. HNL, BOS, KIX, KEF, and CKG all could be decent hubs but are currently mainly just spokes. All of the cities of Europe could have a dozen more destinations than can be reached with NB's now.
4200 nm from BOS has Alaska, North America, half of South America, and all of Europe
4200 nm from DXB - All of Europe, Asia, and Africa.
4200 nm from KIX - All of Asia and Australia
4200 nm from SIN - All of Asia, Australia, and most of the Middle East.
4200 nm from MUC - Nearly all of Asia and Africa, Eastern US & Canada
4200 nm from DEL - All of Asia, Europe, and most of Africa.
4200 nm from KEF - All of North America & Europe, the Middle East.
4200 nm from CKG - Asia, Australia, Middle East, and half of Europe
4200 nm from Moscow - All of Europe and Asia, half of Africa.
4200 nm from MAN - most of North America, Africa, Russia, and Middle East, including India
So just using NB's and the NMA any of the above could hub to those destinations. HNL, BOS, KIX, KEF, and CKG all could be decent hubs but are currently mainly just spokes. All of the cities of Europe could have a dozen more destinations than can be reached with NB's now.