I was on Spirit 197 LGA-FLL today and chatting w Captain briefly before the door closed. A passenger walked up to the front and started past us without a word, and an FA said "you're not going to Ft Lauderdale ? He muttered and walked past us and left. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but after I sat down started thinking about the security issues. While waiting for T/O I asked an FA about it and she said he was on the wrong plane, and fortunately he realized it in time to leave.

I didn't argue, but here are my two questions:

1) If he was ticketed/boarding pass for a different flight, how did he get past boarding agents ? Don't they scan each boarding pass, and doesn't the scanner for each flight flash a light or error if the boarding pass scanned isn't for that flight ?

2) If he was ticketed for this flight and for whatever reason decided to bail last minute, does anyone know that and check to see if he had any checked luggage ? and if so, doesn't it have to be found and removed ?

18 years after 9/11 this seems like basic stuff. Certainly not trashing NK (I'm actually a big fan, one of the few), but this seemed a little unsettling.

aa87 wrote:

2) If he was ticketed for this flight and for whatever reason decided to bail last minute, does anyone know that and check to see if he had any checked luggage ? and if so, doesn't it have to be found and removed?

If he was on the wrong flight, the luggage would presumably be on another plane.

Im guessing the crew does a head count prior to the flight and checks with the passenger list. It would get caught there.

If a passenger decides to leave the aircraft after boarding his baggage has to be offloaded. Also are areas that he had access to need to be searched (I.e. seat/seat area/overhead bin, possibly lavatory). (Not sure if this applies 100% to US/FAA, but the is what would be done under EASA rules). However if he was indeed on the wrong flight this is a different situation but it should not happen. It should be investigated how he managed to board the wrong flight.

Years ago, in STL, AA had CRJ flights to Springfield IL and MO, boarding at the same time from the same gate.

The airplanes were parked next to each other and had 10 min staggered departure times.

FA told me they blocked 4 seats on each return flight specifically for "oops I'm in the wrong state" folks.

Didn't they do a couple of PA announcements before closing the door? I know no-one listens during boarding, but it might reduce (not eliminate) that problem.

I can't vouch for the States, but if it happens in the UK, we check if they have any bags to be removed from the hold, and at the very least the crew will check the vicinity of where the passenger was seated. We will find out why the passenger has decided not to travel, and if the captain is satisfied we can close up and go. If there is suspicion as to why they disembarked then all passengers and their belongings in the cabin are disembarked and everyone is screened at security again (in my experience that rarely actually happens as most crew are under time constraints to get going)

Also, not all airlines do headcounts (a poor decision in my opinion)

exFWAOONW wrote:

Didn't they do a couple of PA announcements before closing the door? I know no-one listens during boarding, but it might reduce (not eliminate) that problem.

I’m sure they did, which is probably why the person got up and left the plane.

litz wrote:

Years ago, in STL, AA had CRJ flights to Springfield IL and MO, boarding at the same time from the same gate.

The airplanes were parked next to each other and had 10 min staggered departure times.

FA told me they blocked 4 seats on each return flight specifically for "oops I'm in the wrong state" folks.

Last time I was flying back from Florida, a pax tried to board the “wrong” flight ahead of me. System buzzed loudly and agent got a message to hold the passenger. Not a problem, just directed to the next gate.

GF

I was on a Skywest flight out of Burbank once, in a metroliner, holding short of the runway, when the aircraft returned to the gate. We stopped short, not the departure gate, and the aircraft was surrounded by law enforcement. They boarded, and removed a man. We were then taken off and herded into a room and locked inside, where we stayed for about 45 minutes. All the luggage was removed from the aircraft and spread out around the aircraft, inspected, then reloaded. Police removed one more passenger from our group, taking them from the locked room, then returned.

We got back on the aircraft. We were informed that the passenger who was first removed had made threats at the checkin counter. He left the airline representative in tears. He got on the flight. Police were notified. Turns out he had warrants for making numerous threats against the airline. Ultimatley, he never got back on the airplane, but the airline left his baggage aboard, and let his traveling companion stay aboard.

In my opinion, that was a mistake.

747Whale wrote:

I was on a Skywest flight out of Burbank once, in a metroliner, holding short of the runway, when the aircraft returned to the gate. We stopped short, not the departure gate, and the aircraft was surrounded by law enforcement. They boarded, and removed a man. We were then taken off and herded into a room and locked inside, where we stayed for about 45 minutes. All the luggage was removed from the aircraft and spread out around the aircraft, inspected, then reloaded. Police removed one more passenger from our group, taking them from the locked room, then returned.

We got back on the aircraft. We were informed that the passenger who was first removed had made threats at the checkin counter. He left the airline representative in tears. He got on the flight. Police were notified. Turns out he had warrants for making numerous threats against the airline. Ultimatley, he never got back on the airplane, but the airline left his baggage aboard, and let his traveling companion stay aboard.

In my opinion, that was a mistake.

I don’t know. Seems like a run of the mill crazy person to me.

“I’m going to blow up the plane! Here is my checked luggage. I will now go and get on the plane.”

Sound like an ace terrorist to you?

opticalilyushin wrote:

I can't vouch for the States, but if it happens in the UK, we check if they have any bags

Also, not all airlines do headcounts (a poor decision in my opinion)

I believe in the US, only international flights are obligated to offload any bags of no show or otherwise not traveling passengers. Though I would imagine most captains would prefer to offload the bags as well, if the passenger physically boarded then deplaned. International of course, you have no choice. No pax=no bags

Head counts don't make sense because they're time consuming, and don't actually verify anything other than the bodies on board. Information they usually already have, be it on an iPad or paper manifest

[quote="Zeke2517"
I don’t know. Seems like a run of the mill crazy person to me.

“I’m going to blow up the plane! Here is my checked luggage. I will now go and get on the plane.”

Sound like an ace terrorist to you?[/quote]

Someone on a watch list, with multiple warrants out for their arrest for sending threatening letters to the airline, for making threats in person of abuse, of harming passengers or an aircraft? Sound like a threat to me?

Yes. Apparently law enforcement felt the same.

When someone has threatened the safety of the flight, leaving their luggage on board is not a wise idea. Allowing their traveling companion on board may not be a wise idea, either.

As for the question of the thread, a person who boarded the flight inadvertently by whatever means, it's very unlikely that their checked baggage was put aboard the same flight by mistake, too. If they've realized they're on the wrong flight, then they're taking their carry-on with them as they get off. Checked baggage will be on the flight for which they're ticketed, so it's not an issue.

If they gate-checked something, then they'd better follow up on that, or it is going to be headed to the wrong destination.

How could something like this happen? Being rebooked onto a different airplane or shifted to a different airplane, for one. Not long ago I got on a flight from Chicago to. Denver. After delays, we pushed back, and started engines, and as the airplane started to taxi, I heard a loud "clunk," and we stopped. The captain made one more attempt to taxi with the same results, after ground personnel checked something, and we were towed back in. After a long delay on the airplane, we were told the nosegear was broken, and the flight was cancelled. We were told to go find another flight or get a hotel. As we began to leave the gate, we were told that a different flight had cancelled, that the airplane just became available, and we were herded toward that gate.

What could go wrong with this one? Multiple flight numbers and passenger lists assigned, cargo and bags on two or more different aircraft, some having already been shifted as gate agents and passengers began to re-work connections. We got on the new airplane. We were about to push back when we stopped. The door opened, the captain deplaned and I saw him through my side window as he disappeared underneath. He returned to the cockpit and announced that a significant fuel leak had been found, and we weren't going. We couldn't get off the airplane, maintenance was on the way, hopefully we could still go.

Passengers got out phones, began making calls, looking up other flights. People were anxious; getting to work, a wedding, one guy had a political dinner for some high-ranking people. People began making their arrangements. After 45 minutes, we closed up, prepared to go, but the same results. Everyone got off the flight, more arrangements were made, and at the last moment, another airplane became available. Now passengers and bags had changed several times, three airplanes, multiple other arrangements made, and don't forget all those who were originally booked on the aircraft into which we were substituted. Any chance of people having boarding passes for the wrong flight, luggage being where it ought not? Any chance at all? You bet.

We ended up getting out on that last airplane. Arrived quite late. When we got to the gate we were told to stay in our seats: the jet bridge was frozen and inoperative. And so it goes. Long day, lots of changes and confusion, and all kinds of openings and opportunities for errors to creep in.

--a the perfect capper for the day, by the time they did get us out and into the terminal and my bag did show up (thankfully, as I was operating a flight the next day), the hotel shuttle had stopped running exactly one minute before, so I had to get a cab. When I got to the hotel, the kitchen had just closed, so I had to order a pizza. With a big storm in progress, the pizza would take 45 minutes, and I hadn't eaten that day. After 45 minutes, they said another 45...thanks to the weather. Just one of those days.

Getting a hundred thousand passengers connected across the system, and their bags to the right place is more than a small miracle, especially since "just one of those days" is really every day, all day, for many. What could possibly go wrong?

Thanks for all replies but none really answered my questions - how exactly did someone board our flight w boarding pass for different city ? Our departure time was 1230 pm from LGA, I did not see any other NK plane anywhere, all others were AA. Possible there was another NK further down the line but I didn't see it. Point is, this seems like some kind of serious breach. Either someone was asleep and let him board w wrong boarding pass, or he left at last minute and no one checked if he had luggage in the hold. Medical doctors have an old saying, "better to be lucky than good". I fully respect TSA, airlines and the system as whole, but in the end its more luck than "good".

aa87 wrote:

Medical doctors have an old saying, "better to be lucky than good".

Sure that's not better to be good, than lucky?

aa87 wrote:

Thanks for all replies but none really answered my questions - how exactly did someone board our flight w boarding pass for different city?

None of us were there, other than you. That means nobody is in a better position to know why, than you, because none of us could have asked them why. How should we know? We weren't there.

How do you know he wasn't an air marshal? He may have been on the airplane for other reasons than what you guess. He may have been a crew member going somewhere.

Insufficient information is provided and you're assuming a lot. Don't.

Yes I'm sure. Think about it - being lucky means good outcome, being good doesn't always mean good outcome. Old surgeons saying.

Not assuming. I was standing right there, and FA later reconfirmed he was on the wrong flight. Crew (incl captain) seemed completely unconcerned about how a passenger ticketed for a different flight was allowed to board. I only know what I witnessed and was told.

aa87 wrote:

Not assuming. I was standing right there, and FA later reconfirmed he was on the wrong flight. Crew (incl captain) seemed completely unconcerned about how a passenger ticketed for a different flight was allowed to board. I only know what I witnessed and was told.

Maybe he made a mistake buying his ticket. In past years of business travel I've seen colleagues buy tickets to the wrong city or wrong airport more than a handful of times. If they're travelling with someone or arranging to meet someone, it's usually caught early and changed. But years ago I had one colleague who flew to Springfield and found himself in Missouri when he was supposed to be in Illinois. In this case they guy most likely the guy had a ticket to Ft. Lauderdale but had screwed up his itinerary.

aa87 wrote:

I only know what I witnessed and was told.

You think that had it been an air marshal that the crew would have told you?

I've seen people arrange a flight to the wrong city by the same name. There was notoriously a major airline crew that ended up in Rome, Italy, to pick up an airplane that was in Rome, New York.

Las Vegas, New Mexico is nothing at all like Las Vegas, Nevada, and god help you if you planned to go to Bagdhad, Arizona. I've been to both. Arizona is a lot quieter.

Again, you were there, and you had the only opportunity to get the low-down and skinny. The participants here are not privy to the crew's decision tree. It does seem that you believe you know more than the crew and feel that you have more information than the crew or the airline regarding the. situation. In such a case, should a security concern exist, it may be more prudent to bring it to light BEFORE the flight departs, than to wait until you get to a computer to tell airliners.net about it.

You think that had it been an air marshal that the crew would have told you?

Did I say that ? Anything possible, and I hope he was an AM since that would mean no one screwed up.But he didn't seem like an AM unless they're now dressing like baked Dead Heads (and that would be great if they are, seriously).

I've seen people arrange a flight to the wrong city by the same name. There was notoriously a major airline crew that ended up in Rome, Italy, to pick up an airplane that was in Rome, New York.

Mutliple posters have said this but completely irrelevant. There is only one Ft. Lauderdale in the US, and I believe the only one in the world and the only one served by NK. Yes, in the 80s I used to fly to Lebanon, NH and after AA started codesharing with Command, an AA res agent told me to call MEA. True story.

It does seem that you believe you know more than the crew and feel that you have more information than the crew or the airline regarding the. situation.

Really ? Is that why I posted here to ask people who may have more knowledge and information than me ? It does seem you're a tad argumentative and accusatory perhaps because you have nothing of substance to add.

In such a case, should a security concern exist, it may be more prudent to bring it to light BEFORE the flight departs, than to wait until you get to a computer to tell airliners.net about it.

I did bring it to light BEFORE the flight departed. I pulled the FA call button while online for take off since it was bothering me. The FA (who did not speak English as her first language and seemed to not understand initially what I was asking about) told me he was on the wrong flight and "good thing he left while we were still at the gate". Since the crew knew the situation, I didn't argue with her about how/why he got on in the first place, or whether someone checked to see if he had checked baggage.

No need for further responses. I only posted in case anyone from the industry had actual knowledge/insight to share about my experience.

aa87 wrote:

Really ? Is that why I posted here to ask people who may have more knowledge and information than me ? It does seem you're a tad argumentative and accusatory perhaps because you have nothing of substance to add.
.

Yes, well, it does seem that those of us who do this for a living don't have much to offer as you aren't hearing what you want to hear. After all, some of us are only experienced airline crew, say, captains who have been operating for several decades. What would we know?

Nothing at all to add to your expertise on airline operations.

Sometimes a passenger does get by the podium without their boarding pass being scanned. If there are people crowding the podium, larger, disorganized families trying to get their act together near the podium or any other types of commotion or distraction around the scanning process a passenger gets by. When conducting inspections the TSA specifically looks for those opportunities to try to get by to test the vigilance of the gate staff. People don;t get by that often but it does happen. In this case it just so happened that a pax got by that was also on the wrong flight. Clearly the pax was already not paying attention so 50% of the equation was already in place. A moments inattention by the gate agent and there you have the other 50%.

aa87 wrote:

I didn't argue, but here are my two questions:

1) If he was ticketed/boarding pass for a different flight, how did he get past boarding agents ? Don't they scan each boarding pass, and doesn't the scanner for each flight flash a light or error if the boarding pass scanned isn't for that flight ?
It should catch the error, but glitches happen. Sometimes the agents rely too much on the computers and don't actually look at the boarding passes. As far as how he got on, million different reasons it could happen....

2) If he was ticketed for this flight and for whatever reason decided to bail last minute, does anyone know that and check to see if he had any checked luggage ? and if so, doesn't it have to be found and removed ?
In the US, luggage is not removed on domestic flights. All checked luggage is screened by TSA and is considered secure. No need to remove it if its already been screened for any contraband. Things get complicated with customs internationally which is where luggage is usually removed if the passenger is not present, but no real security concern.