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TheDutchman92
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Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:22 am

Today (05JAN19) I flew from MEL (YMML) to SYD (YSSY) on QF26 which was a B738. The aircraft encountered destabilising x winds on short final into runway 16L so the flight crew aborted the landing and circled around for another attempt on the same runway. The second attempt played out much the same as the first attempt and much to my disbelief we again hit max thrust and got the hell out of the way on a relatively steep angle of departure. After the climbout and stabilisation the pilot addressed the passengers saying we have 30mins of fuel left and should be making another approach in 10 mins. We then got back onto final for the SAME runway and on short final (at less than 1000ft) the AC momentarily decelerated and yawed to the left as well as dropping enough for some passengers to shriek. We landed but it was rough as guts.

TL;DR: 2 missed approaches and one sketchy successful landing all on the same runway.

My questions are:

1. Is it common practice to make repeated attempts on the same runway instead of using an alternative?

2. Should we have diverted to Illawarra or Canberra after the 2 MAs with only 30mins fuel given that a third missed approach on 20mins of fuel minus the climbout burn would have put us close to a fuel emergency?

These may be silly questions but I love to know why things are done as they are! Thanks airliner.net fam.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:23 am

1. It depends on the reason for the go-around(s). If you had an unstable approach due to windshear which you believe is intermittent and temporary, there's no reason not to try at least once again unless there is some other pertinent information. One of the first things you do after a missed approach is get updated weather for the airport.

2. I doubt the captain meant "30 minutes total". Probably 30 minutes final reserve plus 30 minutes. AFAIK QF doesn't routinely use alternates. Besides, Sydney has three runways, two of which are independent, and in many cases you can count the other runways as alternates.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:50 pm

As for multiple attempts, I've seen it happen. It's up to the flight crew what it is they want to do. Several months back, I was listening to LiveATC, and the winds at JFK were particularly nasty that morning. American 83 made three attempts before diverting, and JetBlue 990 made two attempts before diverting. Can't really answer the second question.
Captain Kevin
 
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zeke
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:36 pm

What airport is in Illawarra ? RAAF Richmond ?
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
thepinkmachine
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:20 pm

As others said, it was probably not as much drama as it looks. Having said that, SYD ATC tend to push people into accepting the shorter 16L/34R as long as performance permits. On a windy day with one missed app behind me I would be more inclined to try 16R - it gives more leeway, plus perhaps the wind conditions are slightly different...
 
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nuke
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:22 pm

zeke wrote:
What airport is in Illawarra ? RAAF Richmond ?

YWOL. Not a suitable alternate for a 737. Usually YSCB, and then YMML/YBBN.
Dependable Engines.
 
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TheDutchman92
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:56 pm

nuke wrote:
zeke wrote:
What airport is in Illawarra ? RAAF Richmond ?

YWOL. Not a suitable alternate for a 737. Usually YSCB, and then YMML/YBBN.


Qantas landed a retired 744 there a few years ago, surely it could accommodate?
 
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zeke
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:21 pm

nuke wrote:
zeke wrote:
What airport is in Illawarra ? RAAF Richmond ?

YWOL. Not a suitable alternate for a 737. Usually YSCB, and then YMML/YBBN.


WOL pavement strength is not good enough, QF also use XRH and NTL.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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nuke
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:48 am

zeke wrote:
nuke wrote:
zeke wrote:
What airport is in Illawarra ? RAAF Richmond ?

YWOL. Not a suitable alternate for a 737. Usually YSCB, and then YMML/YBBN.


WOL pavement strength is not good enough, QF also use XRH and NTL.


Richmond is a bit of a PIA logistically, (but yes used) forgot about NTL though.

TheDutchman92 wrote:
zeke wrote:
nuke wrote:
YWOL. Not a suitable alternate for a 737. Usually YSCB, and then YMML/YBBN.


WOL pavement strength is not good enough, QF also use XRH and NTL.


One off flight landing an empty 747 for storage at a Museum that required a lot of planning to make sure it was done right.
Richmond is a bit of a PIA logistically, (but yes used) forgot about NTL though.
Dependable Engines.
 
747Whale
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:03 am

The cabin announcement that 30 minutes fuel remained did not mean that there was only enough fuel for an additional 30 minutes of operation. It meant that 30 minutes were available before diverting. That should have been made clear in the announcement, because as is, it could only incite concerns among the passengers.

The description sounds like windshear activity; whatever the conditions, the crew clearly felt that another approach was warranted. Conditions at the alternate aren't given, so that can't be addressed. If the visibility was good and the convective activity was transitioning through the area, it's reasonable to another approach should the weather be above minimums.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:27 am

TheDutchman92 wrote:
nuke wrote:
zeke wrote:
What airport is in Illawarra ? RAAF Richmond ?

YWOL. Not a suitable alternate for a 737. Usually YSCB, and then YMML/YBBN.

Qantas landed a retired 744 there a few years ago, surely it could accommodate?

Yes, they did because they were never going to fly it again. Presumably they would like to be able to use their 737 again.
Captain Kevin
 
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nuke
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:33 am

AirKevin wrote:
TheDutchman92 wrote:
nuke wrote:
YWOL. Not a suitable alternate for a 737. Usually YSCB, and then YMML/YBBN.

Qantas landed a retired 744 there a few years ago, surely it could accommodate?

Yes, they did because they were never going to fly it again. Presumably they would like to be able to use their 737 again.

There's enough runway to takeoff in an empty 747 again if they wanted to.
Dependable Engines.
 
hawjl
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Re: Question regarding missed approaches at SYD

Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:08 pm

1.if the wind exceed the limit of AC ,divert with no hesitation. otherwise, base on your own experience, ask yourself if this condition really under your control. one fail approach sometimes may crush your confident for this flight so make that into consideration.
2. about fuel , should roughly know your fuel consumption for one Landing plus MAP. on top of that , you may have your extra fuel in your mind which should not be burned unless in emergency. if these is left, make another try.

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