mateor11
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Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:01 am

Hello, everyone! I just signed a an operating lease for a Boeing 767-600ER and a Dornier 328 Executive Jet. I have been working on starting a new airline and I'm glad to be one step closer. We will be operating a hub out of Atlanta, initially offering routes into/out of Florida, New York, and California, with plans to expand to Texas, Illinois, North Carolina, Massachusetts, and Colorado. The copyright and trademark is still pending so I won't share the name yet, but to summarize the mission/idea behind it: First Class Flights at Economy Prices. With the exception of the 767, we will only be operating "private" aircraft with spacious seats, luxurious amenities, and the best in-flight service. What do you all think of this idea? Economically it works out through our operating method which was created by a logistics firm, can't share many specifics yet on how we keep costs low, but hopefully I can soon since I'd love feedback on it. Any ideas on how commercial airlines can improve their service? I'd love to hear what you guys think~
NY Based, Ex-pilot who moonlights as a serial entrepreneur.
 
winginit
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:57 am

1. Price
2. Schedule
3. Loyalty

These are the three factors that dictate why a vast majority of travelers in this country choose their air carrier. I would be curious to hear which of these you think you'll be able to capitalize on to the point where your carrier is more appealing than the well-established competition.
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:05 am

I'm, ah... um... what?

I hope this is a virtual airline.
 
A388
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:10 am

Starting a new airline and asking questions in this forum?

A388
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:15 am

767-600?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:16 am

NYPECO wrote:
767-600?

ER, no less.
 
MO11
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:20 am

At least he got the -ER 'cause the standard version is a pig.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:20 am

I have a few questions:

mateor11 wrote:
Hello, everyone! I just signed a an operating lease for a Boeing 767-600ER and a Dornier 328 Executive Jet.

Do you mean the 767-300ER?
mateor11 wrote:
We will be operating a hub out of Atlanta, initially offering routes into/out of Florida, New York, and California, with plans to expand to Texas, Illinois, North Carolina, Massachusetts, and Colorado

Are you planning to operate out of ATL? or another Atlanta area airport? There is also a lot of competition from all segments of the market from Atlanta to FL/NY/Cali, why were those routes chosen?

mateor11 wrote:
First Class Flights at Economy Prices. With the exception of the 767, we will only be operating "private" aircraft with spacious seats, luxurious amenities, and the best in-flight service. What do you all think of this idea? Economically it works out through our operating method which was created by a logistics firm, can't share many specifics yet on how we keep costs low, but hopefully I can soon since I'd love feedback on it. Any ideas on how commercial airlines can improve their service? I'd love to hear what you guys think~


So will you be doing charter service or scheduled flights? That is going to determine a lot about what your customers will want, and who you are trying to appeal to....
Last edited by Midwestindy on Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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stlgph
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:21 am

If you don't have an in flight entertainment channel showing nothing but Match Game, just stay home.
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mateor11
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:34 am

Midwestindy wrote:
I have a few questions:

mateor11 wrote:
Hello, everyone! I just signed a an operating lease for a Boeing 767-600ER and a Dornier 328 Executive Jet.

Do you mean the 767-300ER?
mateor11 wrote:
We will be operating a hub out of Atlanta, initially offering routes into/out of Florida, New York, and California, with plans to expand to Texas, Illinois, North Carolina, Massachusetts, and Colorado

Are you planning to operate out of ATL? or another Atlanta area airport? There is also a lot of competition from all segments of the market from Atlanta to FL/NY/Cali, why were those routes chosen?

mateor11 wrote:
First Class Flights at Economy Prices. With the exception of the 767, we will only be operating "private" aircraft with spacious seats, luxurious amenities, and the best in-flight service. What do you all think of this idea? Economically it works out through our operating method which was created by a logistics firm, can't share many specifics yet on how we keep costs low, but hopefully I can soon since I'd love feedback on it. Any ideas on how commercial airlines can improve their service? I'd love to hear what you guys think~


So will you be doing charter service or scheduled flights? That is going to determine a lot about what your customers will want, and who you are trying to appeal to....


Yes, that's correct. Must have pressed the wrong button. We chose high volume routes, and white there is tough competition for these routes, our price point should be enough to win over a significant chunk of customers. We will be operating out of ATL. Specifically, we will be running routes to Orlando, Tampa, Fort Myers, Buffalo, Newark, Los Angeles, and Oakland. We will operate, for the majority, scheduled flights, but we also have a charter program since the majority of the aircraft we intend to acquire would fit that usage.
NY Based, Ex-pilot who moonlights as a serial entrepreneur.
 
mateor11
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:36 am

Not to sound snide, but I don't see what's so unbelievable about this to some of you. Perhaps if I provided more background on my experience, funding, and organization it would seem more legitimate. Regardless, thanks to the few who have provided constructive feedback.
NY Based, Ex-pilot who moonlights as a serial entrepreneur.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:58 am

Just look at the service levels for domestic airlines flying in China. No checked bag fees, warm meals served on board, etc.
 
williaminsd
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:03 am

Is that you, Ted Vallas?
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:06 am

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt because I’m bored and have nothing better to do right now, but why ATL? Delta dominates on so many levels. Talk about a hard barrier to entry.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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flymco753
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:59 am

You should talk to my people, we're a successful ULCC controlling the fares in the Detroit to Florida market using several used A321 aircraft. Were privately invested by a firm who might be interested in your idea. We also have very low CASM E190s coming on board too as we look to start controlling the short haul markets and become the leading low cost airline of the US. We offer exclusive inflight entertainment including PTVs. All passengers bags are free and each passenger gets a fine dining meal. As of now we've been approved to fly 10x daily between Detroit and Orlando-Sanford along with 6x daily flights to St. Pete/Clearwater, Punta Gorda, Fort Lauderdale, and daily flights to Sarasota, Melbourne, Daytona Beach, St. Augustine, West Palm Beach, and Destin/Fort Walton.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:16 am

mateor11 wrote:
Hello, everyone! I just signed a an operating lease for a Boeing 767-600ER and a Dornier 328 Executive Jet. I have been working on starting a new airline and I'm glad to be one step closer. We will be operating a hub out of Atlanta, initially offering routes into/out of Florida, New York, and California, with plans to expand to Texas, Illinois, North Carolina, Massachusetts, and Colorado. The copyright and trademark is still pending so I won't share the name yet, but to summarize the mission/idea behind it: First Class Flights at Economy Prices. With the exception of the 767, we will only be operating "private" aircraft with spacious seats, luxurious amenities, and the best in-flight service. What do you all think of this idea? Economically it works out through our operating method which was created by a logistics firm, can't share many specifics yet on how we keep costs low, but hopefully I can soon since I'd love feedback on it. Any ideas on how commercial airlines can improve their service? I'd love to hear what you guys think~


Seriously, you won't make it. You'll be bankrupt before you know it, your idea has a too high cost base and too low yields. You'll never make profit. Everybody around here knows that, that's why they're making a fool of you.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:38 pm

I have no idea if this thread is legit but first class treatment at coach prices just doesn't seem doable in the long term. Even JetBlue that started off as an enhanced "Southwest" over the years has moved more towards an ULCC. Investors want yields and cutting costs brings in better yields. Would certain consumers be willing to pay for a better experience? Doubtful on any meaningful scale unless the delta in price was relatively small, and the airline could provide specifics.

Starting out of a busy one airline dominated hub will be difficult. JetBlue got lucky that in 1999 JFK for the exception of European flights was a fairly under utilized airport. Few airlines were running a domestic operation other than transcons and whatever feed for International routes. AA was asleep at the well not to mentioned battling for its life at the time of JetBlue's inversion. JetBlue just happened to be at the right place at the right time and even with that the airline has had some very difficult times.
 
incitatus
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:12 pm

mateor11 wrote:
Not to sound snide, but I don't see what's so unbelievable about this to some of you. Perhaps if I provided more background on my experience, funding, and organization it would seem more legitimate. Regardless, thanks to the few who have provided constructive feedback.


If you are serious, you are likely to lose your shirt very quickly. Atlanta is not an under-served airport. If Delta thinks you have any remote chance of success, they will create pricing and promotion tricks to make sure their traffic stays with them. If a new airline ever sets up in Atlanta and they ignore it, that is good sign that the chance of success is precisely zero.

To start an airline in the US with a chance of viability you need $500 million in capital. You also need to research the market and find a niche that can be served profitably. De-luxe airline out of Atlanta ain't it.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
BravoOne
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:40 pm

This must be an early April fools joke. B767-600ER?
 
747Whale
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:12 pm

One airplane? And a regional jet.

There's a recipe for success.
 
n6238p
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:14 pm

I have more questions but the mods will just delete them because apparently this is a very serious thread.
To actively root against anybody is just low, and I hope karma comes back at you with a vengeance
 
mateor11
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:33 pm

747Whale wrote:
One airplane? And a regional jet.

There's a recipe for success.


I should have specified; The 767-300er and the Dormier are the only two that we will "own" (in quotations because leasing isn't technically owning) and the rest of our fleet will be rented from our Charter partners until the end of YR 2 to minimize risk of losing our investments. If we bought a whole fleet initially and then failed, we would lose a lot more money than owning just two aircraft and then renting the rest for ~$20,000/month until we have been running revenue operations long enough to establish longevity.
NY Based, Ex-pilot who moonlights as a serial entrepreneur.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:54 pm

mateor11 wrote:
747Whale wrote:
One airplane? And a regional jet.

There's a recipe for success.


I should have specified; The 767-300er and the Dormier are the only two that we will "own" (in quotations because leasing isn't technically owning) and the rest of our fleet will be rented from our Charter partners until the end of YR 2 to minimize risk of losing our investments. If we bought a whole fleet initially and then failed, we would lose a lot more money than owning just two aircraft and then renting the rest for ~$20,000/month until we have been running revenue operations long enough to establish longevity.


So what's the rest of the fleet/what are the "partners" bringing to the show?

IMHO, 767 is going to doom it from day one. No way you can fill a 767 in a profitable way. Crews are really expensive, maintenance will be intensive, lots of seats need to be filled on every flight, hard to do ACMI with it should the standalone venture fail etc. It's smells of big shiny jet syndrome. It would be more sensible to focus on the E190 or E195. Comfortable, modern and very capable aircraft, and with an E-jet AOC you can try to get some contracts for the US3 on top.
 
747Whale
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:15 pm

How is a 767 crew more expensive than any other crew?

Hard to do ACMI with a 767? Right now it's the favored aircraft for ACMI.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:23 pm

The thing with the 767-300 is that you have to fill it profitably. Business travelers are going to shy away because lack of route network, particularly any juicy corporate contracts. The US consumer has shown a true willingness to fly Air Wal Mart so they can save $10 (even when in the long run they spend more). The OP claims this to be a full service airline. So what's left are some errant business travelers and Americans willing to pay above Spirit fares, filling a 767-300 to the brim. In an airport dominated by one worldwide carrier.

There's a reason over the past near 20 years new airlines haven't been successful (think Independence Air, MaxJet, Skybus). I personally wish there was an airline that would charge $50 more and give a much better experience but so far it doesn't seem to be a viable business model.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:34 pm

mateor11 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I have a few questions:

mateor11 wrote:
Hello, everyone! I just signed a an operating lease for a Boeing 767-600ER and a Dornier 328 Executive Jet.

Do you mean the 767-300ER?
mateor11 wrote:
We will be operating a hub out of Atlanta, initially offering routes into/out of Florida, New York, and California, with plans to expand to Texas, Illinois, North Carolina, Massachusetts, and Colorado

Are you planning to operate out of ATL? or another Atlanta area airport? There is also a lot of competition from all segments of the market from Atlanta to FL/NY/Cali, why were those routes chosen?

mateor11 wrote:
First Class Flights at Economy Prices. With the exception of the 767, we will only be operating "private" aircraft with spacious seats, luxurious amenities, and the best in-flight service. What do you all think of this idea? Economically it works out through our operating method which was created by a logistics firm, can't share many specifics yet on how we keep costs low, but hopefully I can soon since I'd love feedback on it. Any ideas on how commercial airlines can improve their service? I'd love to hear what you guys think~


So will you be doing charter service or scheduled flights? That is going to determine a lot about what your customers will want, and who you are trying to appeal to....


Yes, that's correct. Must have pressed the wrong button. We chose high volume routes, and white there is tough competition for these routes, our price point should be enough to win over a significant chunk of customers. We will be operating out of ATL. Specifically, we will be running routes to Orlando, Tampa, Fort Myers, Buffalo, Newark, Los Angeles, and Oakland. We will operate, for the majority, scheduled flights, but we also have a charter program since the majority of the aircraft we intend to acquire would fit that usage.


There is a risk here from an operation at a mega hub like ATL. One risk is that so much of the ATL market is DL FFs, and it will be difficult to sway those fliers away from DL, in addition, DL will likely try to price match you on certain routes.

You mentioned that your price point could be enough to win over significant market share, but you have to remember that many of these ATL fliers who are traveling outside of business will be likely to use miles for tickets and won't even bother paying for flights.

How far along are you in this process? Have you already spoken with ATL, BUF, MCO, TPA, LAX, e.t.c to communicate that you intend to start service? In some cases you may be eligible for incentives for starting service, obviously depending on the airport.

mateor11 wrote:
Not to sound snide, but I don't see what's so unbelievable about this to some of you. Perhaps if I provided more background on my experience, funding, and organization it would seem more legitimate. Regardless, thanks to the few who have provided constructive feedback.


I think you will get better feedback if you elaborate on what your experience is, and what the background of the organization is
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WPvsMW
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:51 pm

OP, you'll be a millionaire before you know it, assuming (to paraphrase SRB) you're starting with a billion dollars.
I suggest PM'ing the other past posters here on Tech/Ops who tried to start airlines.
If it were easy to do, the charter and supplemental operators would jump on it.
I hope you're not trying to name your airline Moxy.
 
mateor11
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:01 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
mateor11 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I have a few questions:


Do you mean the 767-300ER?

Are you planning to operate out of ATL? or another Atlanta area airport? There is also a lot of competition from all segments of the market from Atlanta to FL/NY/Cali, why were those routes chosen?



So will you be doing charter service or scheduled flights? That is going to determine a lot about what your customers will want, and who you are trying to appeal to....


Yes, that's correct. Must have pressed the wrong button. We chose high volume routes, and white there is tough competition for these routes, our price point should be enough to win over a significant chunk of customers. We will be operating out of ATL. Specifically, we will be running routes to Orlando, Tampa, Fort Myers, Buffalo, Newark, Los Angeles, and Oakland. We will operate, for the majority, scheduled flights, but we also have a charter program since the majority of the aircraft we intend to acquire would fit that usage.


There is a risk here from an operation at a mega hub like ATL. One risk is that so much of the ATL market is DL FFs, and it will be difficult to sway those fliers away from DL, in addition, DL will likely try to price match you on certain routes.

You mentioned that your price point could be enough to win over significant market share, but you have to remember that many of these ATL fliers who are traveling outside of business will be likely to use miles for tickets and won't even bother paying for flights.

How far along are you in this process? Have you already spoken with ATL, BUF, MCO, TPA, LAX, e.t.c to communicate that you intend to start service? In some cases you may be eligible for incentives for starting service, obviously depending on the airport.

mateor11 wrote:
Not to sound snide, but I don't see what's so unbelievable about this to some of you. Perhaps if I provided more background on my experience, funding, and organization it would seem more legitimate. Regardless, thanks to the few who have provided constructive feedback.


I think you will get better feedback if you elaborate on what your experience is, and what the background of the organization is


Thank you for your feedback! So far, we are a match for some of the incentives offered by BUF and RSW (forgot to mention that one earlier), and we are still commnunicating with the others about how to proceed, but all are informed of our intent to start service there and seem quite receptive. We are ~7 months along in the process so we have a long way to go and a lot could and most likely will change by our expected launch date. As for my experience; to start, my parents were business owners in the freight industry (air and ground) which is where I suppose I got my affinity for flight. Got my private license at 19, started training to be a FO at American Eagle at 23 but I was hired by a private party to fly for them so I went that route instead. Eventually I got into the business like my parents, working in air freight (imports, customs). Wasn't really my thing due to the quite restrictive environment. Previously I had started several successful companies (event promotion and merchandise production as those were two of my side hobbies) so I decided to venture into something I was more passionate about: commercial aviation. My partner and I raised about $300,000 in seed funding and later $7.3 million in bridge capital from two investment firms and 6 private investors. I don't have much experience in airline operations so I have been working on hiring more staff to build a more experienced and knowledgeable management team. I suppose that is the general background for the company. Our website is still in development, but it should be done within the next few weeks. I'm debating whether or not I should give a "sneak peek" of our logo/branding. Let me know if you'd like to see it. Also, to address the profitability concerns someone mentioned above, we have several analyses and breakdowns that have shown us that it is a viable idea as long as we keep certain operational costs low, which we are doing by the operating strategy we developed that I mentioned earlier.
NY Based, Ex-pilot who moonlights as a serial entrepreneur.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:09 pm

OP, best of luck. Have you selected your IT providers yet? The IT side is just as important as the fleet and crew side. Years ago, I helped start a new airline, and the barrier to growth was the IT side. You can always find wet and dry leases on short notice, but IT is a whole 'nother ballgame. To paraphrase Yogi Berra, 90% of it is planning, and the other half is waiting.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:54 pm

747Whale wrote:
How is a 767 crew more expensive than any other crew?


Demand and supply. Narrowbody pilots can be sourced from regional carriers, or low-timers at the majors. 767 crews will have to be poached from major airlines. They will have more seniority and be less incentivized to move to an upstart. Same with engineers. You also need more cabin crew per flight.
 
LewisNEO
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:22 pm

mateor11 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
mateor11 wrote:

Yes, that's correct. Must have pressed the wrong button. We chose high volume routes, and white there is tough competition for these routes, our price point should be enough to win over a significant chunk of customers. We will be operating out of ATL. Specifically, we will be running routes to Orlando, Tampa, Fort Myers, Buffalo, Newark, Los Angeles, and Oakland. We will operate, for the majority, scheduled flights, but we also have a charter program since the majority of the aircraft we intend to acquire would fit that usage.


There is a risk here from an operation at a mega hub like ATL. One risk is that so much of the ATL market is DL FFs, and it will be difficult to sway those fliers away from DL, in addition, DL will likely try to price match you on certain routes.

You mentioned that your price point could be enough to win over significant market share, but you have to remember that many of these ATL fliers who are traveling outside of business will be likely to use miles for tickets and won't even bother paying for flights.

How far along are you in this process? Have you already spoken with ATL, BUF, MCO, TPA, LAX, e.t.c to communicate that you intend to start service? In some cases you may be eligible for incentives for starting service, obviously depending on the airport.

mateor11 wrote:
Not to sound snide, but I don't see what's so unbelievable about this to some of you. Perhaps if I provided more background on my experience, funding, and organization it would seem more legitimate. Regardless, thanks to the few who have provided constructive feedback.


I think you will get better feedback if you elaborate on what your experience is, and what the background of the organization is


Thank you for your feedback! So far, we are a match for some of the incentives offered by BUF and RSW (forgot to mention that one earlier), and we are still commnunicating with the others about how to proceed, but all are informed of our intent to start service there and seem quite receptive. We are ~7 months along in the process so we have a long way to go and a lot could and most likely will change by our expected launch date. As for my experience; to start, my parents were business owners in the freight industry (air and ground) which is where I suppose I got my affinity for flight. Got my private license at 19, started training to be a FO at American Eagle at 23 but I was hired by a private party to fly for them so I went that route instead. Eventually I got into the business like my parents, working in air freight (imports, customs). Wasn't really my thing due to the quite restrictive environment. Previously I had started several successful companies (event promotion and merchandise production as those were two of my side hobbies) so I decided to venture into something I was more passionate about: commercial aviation. My partner and I raised about $300,000 in seed funding and later $7.3 million in bridge capital from two investment firms and 6 private investors. I don't have much experience in airline operations so I have been working on hiring more staff to build a more experienced and knowledgeable management team. I suppose that is the general background for the company. Our website is still in development, but it should be done within the next few weeks. I'm debating whether or not I should give a "sneak peek" of our logo/branding. Let me know if you'd like to see it. Also, to address the profitability concerns someone mentioned above, we have several analyses and breakdowns that have shown us that it is a viable idea as long as we keep certain operational costs low, which we are doing by the operating strategy we developed that I mentioned earlier.



Sounds awesome and you are more serious than many might think, while reading your first message. I do wonder if you need to provide so much business information on this forum. I would advise you to wait with the sneak peak until the website is launched, and that of course, you can share here to us, as a first :)
You are the wind beneath my wings.

Fokker 27, Bombardier Dash 8, Embraer 175 & 195, 727-200, 737-200 & -300 & -400 & -800, 747-400, 767-300, 767-400, DC 10-30, A320-200, A330-200, A330-300, A380.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:20 pm

I’m no airline expert but it just seems providing a first class experience at a coach price impractical, particularly as costs naturally rise. Maybe on the end of higher coach prices but again what’s the market potential?

Moreover if this airline were to become viable the Big 4 would squash them like a bug. Few industries are as price competitive as airlines and skirt the lines of price collusion.
 
n6238p
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:28 pm

I’ll ask a serious question now, what rules would these flights operate under? 121? 380? Do you have a certificate lined up?
To actively root against anybody is just low, and I hope karma comes back at you with a vengeance
 
stratclub
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:46 am

I think we should lambaste Sir Richard Branson for his lack of foresight in his endeavors while were at it. Good thing he didn't post here.
 
n6238p
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:42 pm

I think the problem is that the model and plan makes little to no sense. Initially starting in Atlanta with a we'll just call it a 767 and a Do328 with service to Tampa, Orlando, Fort Myers, Buffalo, Newark, LA, Oakland. Two airplanes, eight cities including two transcons. Huh? I don't know what airport in Atlanta would be used but it isn't ATL, what gates are available, especially those built to support a 767? Then there's my next question, the funding. Doesn't sound like there's even $8,000,000 raised yet to get this venture off the ground. No plan on how to get crews, training, mechanics, ground employees, offices, certificates, equipment, anything. Next is having first class service at economy prices. Huh? How does that even work without some sort of alternate means of revenue? The OP claims they don't have much experience in this field. That's about the only thing they got right so far. If this is even real, sounds like someone playing with mommy and daddy's money.
To actively root against anybody is just low, and I hope karma comes back at you with a vengeance
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:07 pm

F service at Y fares? He can make it up on volume. :shock:

Small charter operators come and go, one plane, two planes. Let's assume the OP has the distribution network to source pax, and the money for frames and ops. The weakness I see then is .... redundancy. One frame of each type, and one type is a WB. gulp. Mechanical failure.... fairly easy to get an "instant" replacement on a commuter frame, but on a 763????
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2471
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: Starting a new Airline

Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:26 pm

Just looking at today, Delta has 19 flights ATL-MCO, 13 ATL-TPA, 12 ATL-LAX, 9 ATL-RSW, 8 ATL-EWR, and 4 ATL-BUF.

Perhaps you’re looking at secondary airports in some of these markets, but I’d give serious though as to how you will compete against this kind of schedule flexibility. A nicer seat for the same price is good, but not worth getting home hours later, especially on the shorter east coast routes.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
incitatus
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:37 pm

stratclub wrote:
I think we should lambaste Sir Richard Branson for his lack of foresight in his endeavors while were at it. Good thing he didn't post here.


That is a fair point, but look at the other side: There is one Richard Branson. How many Richard-Branson-wanna-be's failed? Plenty. Also, Branson had a few things going for him. He already had a popular brand on hand. I was in London in early 1985 and Virgin stores were all the rage. Virgin Air got help from other Virgin companies. Branson set up Virgin Holidays soon after the airline to help fill up Virgin's aircraft. Virgin went after a large route (NY-London) where they could make money in the Summer with price-sensitive travelers.

Life is rough for small airlines in the US. It is not easy to get an operating certificate, something mentioned already by another poster. Most airlines that are able to get by use small aircraft - 50 seats or less. California Pacific Airlines is one of them and just suspended operations a few days ago.

Operating larger aircraft, the "airline" that comes to mind is Dynamic Airways and is now renamed Eastern. They do not have scheduled service anymore.

The OP might be setting up an airline - but it is not clear if it is a scheduled service airline.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
AndrewJM70
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:08 pm

Re: Starting a new Airline

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:22 pm

Making comparisons with Branson is not comparing apples with apples.

Branson uses the airline as a marketing vehicle to project his brand across the globe, which it does amazingly well. Whether it makes £10m a year or loses £30m doesn't really matter, because the rest of his empire has very little cost, as it involves hiring his name for 3% revenue share of whichever product it is promoting.

As for the OP "venture", in 25 years as an air transport consultant specialising in route development and airline economics, I have seen quite a few hare-brained ideas but few as ridiculous as this one. Chance of success - zero.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:11 pm

Agreed, as to scheduled service.... but charter and supplemental might work if the founders have the right personal connections.
 
aviatorcraig
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: Starting a new Airline

Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:43 am

Is there a new Xbox/PlayStation 4 game out called "Airline Manager 2019" or something?
707 727 Caravelle Comet Concorde Dash-7 DC-9 DC-10 One-Eleven Trident Tristar Tu-134 VC-10 Viscount plus boring stuff!
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2229
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Starting a new Airline

Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:27 pm

mateor11 wrote:
If we bought a whole fleet initially and then failed, we would lose a lot more money than owning just two aircraft and then renting the rest for ~$20,000/month until we have been running revenue operations long enough to establish longevity.


20K a month? What are you getting, a clapped out Cessna Caravan?

This is so far out, I'm not sure if its tragic or a joke. One things for certain though, what we have here is a dreamer who haven't got a clue what he's on about, and is about as near to operating an airline as I am to operate the Battlestar Gallactica.

But let's have some fun with him. He claims to have raised 7.8M and have bought a Do328 and 767-300ER. Well done you; a well used Do328 in respectable condition is hard to find, but if you do they're around 3-5M. A 767-300ER can be had for around 10M, in a respectable condition and with a a few years to go until a heavy check. Now I'm not a maths genius, but the numbers don't seem to add up. Particularly when you presumable also have to forge out a fair amount of dosh to pay the staff. Here's a hint for you: With your complete lack of aviation management credentials, you won't be acceptable as an accountable manager when it comes time to get your AOC. You'll need one of them, along with a few other post holders that are acceptable to the FAA, none of which will even look at you if you offer them less than 200K a year. And given the vapourware nature of this endeavour, anyone with just a smidgen of respect will give you a wide berth indeed. So, in short, you haven't got the funds nor the credentials to attract the people you need to get your AOC.

Suggest you play with this instead which, I have a nagging feeling, is about as close as you'll ever get to managing an airline: www.airwaysim.com
Signature. You just read one.
 
Georgetown
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:50 pm

Re: Starting a new Airline

Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:17 pm

This thread reminds me of this gem from over a decade ago: viewtopic.php?t=479803
Let's go Hoyas!
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Starting a new Airline

Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:25 am

Late realization... the OP never said he was after an FAA AOC. So.. Part 129 foreign carrier?? AOC from "another continent"? Hmmm, a "laundry airline", or "connections not credentials"?
 
incitatus
Posts: 3239
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:33 pm

In spite of my own skepticism, I am interested in how this endeavor evolves. Any word on the company name?
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
KentB27
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:20 pm

Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:35 pm

I'm sorry to say this, but I seriously question the legitimacy of this endeavor given the vagueness and lack of details. However, if you are actually serious about this, why ATL? Delta will you have you running away, yelping with your tail between your legs if they think you pose any threat to them.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 3660
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:52 pm

KentB27 wrote:
I'm sorry to say this, but I seriously question the legitimacy of this endeavor given the vagueness and lack of details. However, if you are actually serious about this, why ATL? Delta will you have you running away, yelping with your tail between your legs if they think you pose any threat to them.


Maybe they want Delta to buy them out to prevent them starting up? I think that’s an equally bad strategy because Delta could also do nothing and let them go away on their own.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
incitatus
Posts: 3239
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: Starting a new Airline

Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:49 am

jetmatt777 wrote:

Maybe they want Delta to buy them out to prevent them starting up? I think that’s an equally bad strategy because Delta could also do nothing and let them go away on their own.


As I mentioned above, if a competitor establishes in a hub and the dominant airline concludes the start-up is not viable, they will not even bother matching fares, much less acquiring.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
Zeke2517
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:29 pm

Re: Starting a new Airline

Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:34 pm

I do not believe that this is real. Like, there is no way that a person who is starting a multimillion dollar company of this nature would come to the comments section of this website to ask what people think.

I mean, why? “My pals and I are getting a few hugely expensive planes and we are going to fly them out of Atlanta to the same places Delta flies to. Profit!”

I’ve been following this thread for a while, popcorn in hand, but let’s be serious. No freaking way is this real.
 
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TOGA10
Posts: 231
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Re: Starting a new Airline

Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:37 pm

No news?
Love flying, hate the alarm at 3 in the morning, love watching the sun rise at 5:30. It's all about compromises.

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