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rjsampson
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:00 am

From KSAN to KLAS: Why not a quick downwind departure? Why spend so much time in the "wrong direction?"

Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:17 pm

Never undersood that flight path. It looks like it takes the JETTI departure, turns Northwest (and flies over a hundred miles over the Pacific, finally making it's NE right turn towards Vegas just South of Western Los Angeles.

Wouldn't a right downwind departure, then a left NE turn save a lot of time and fuel?

Couldn't they even do the POGGI approach with (it's rather quick southbound, then eastern turn), then quickly go NNE to Vegas?

EDIT: I don't know if they're still doing the POGGI approach, or if the Imperial Beach IBEE is the standard, due to the Point Loma NIMBYs or not?)
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: From KSAN to KLAS: Why not a quick downwind departure? Why spend so much time in the "wrong direction?"

Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:38 pm

Pretty standard at SAN and the LA airports, off shore until above 10,000’, then the turn eastbound. I just attributed to nutball NIMBYs in SoCal, but could be ATC airspace restrictions.

Those SIDS aren’t published anymore, either

GF
 
Alias1024
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: From KSAN to KLAS: Why not a quick downwind departure? Why spend so much time in the "wrong direction?"

Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:05 pm

They use the PADRZ departure now. I would guess the restricted area north of Camp Pendelton up to FL270 is one reason for the late turn. You aren't past it until abeam Dana Point. Then there are likely ATC issues as you have to cross the COMIX arrival to SAN and I'd guess you need to be above that arrival traffic before ATC can let you cut the corner and turn to the north. That arrival is also why a right downwind departure is impractical. The COMIX arrivals end up on that downwind, and if you go under them and head NE you pass through Miramar's restricted area.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
FlyHossD
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: From KSAN to KLAS: Why not a quick downwind departure? Why spend so much time in the "wrong direction?"

Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:47 pm

Depart on Runway 9? How would the SAN arrival traffic be handled?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
Redbellyguppy
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:57 am

Re: From KSAN to KLAS: Why not a quick downwind departure? Why spend so much time in the "wrong direction?"

Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:37 pm

You could conceivably fly the ZZOOO2 MTBAL transition however they would force you onto the TYSSN arrival over EED. This is because of descending lax inbound flow plus the R2501 (twentynine palms) complex. If you climb hard going north on the PADRZ departure to get over the SAN inbounds plus the LAX eastbound departures it’s mot uncommon to get a shortcut to SEBBY or POM before you’re abeam SNA. It’s somewhat out of your way to fly SAN-LAS sure but it’s not terrible and you get paid by the minute anyways so who cares. It’s built into the block time. There’s a lot of traffic and not that much airspace. Just the way it is.

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