I want to know when ETOPS was approved for Transpacific flights?

Your question is a bit too broad. The 737 had ETOPS for island hoping in the 1970s.

For larger planes 180-min ETOPS on 777 was approved in 1997 and used by China Southern.

Though prior other types like 757 and 767 had is long before.

ETOPS isn’t region-specific, but the Pacific in the late 1980s required ETOPS 180 which was approved in 1988 and first ETOPS 180 routes were started in 1989.

The opening of the Russian Far East allowed for more diversion airports and ETOPS 120 can work in the North Pacific.

GF

When was the first Transpacific twin flight?

I am not saying this to be rude but if you Google ETOPS there are some fascinating articles about how ETOPS came about. There are several ETOPS stories also. Just some good reading.

Edit to add this short You Tube on NZ getting ETOPS 330 on the 777-300

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_azlwNlTgI

travaz wrote:

I am not saying this to be rude but if you Google ETOPS there are some fascinating articles about how ETOPS came about. There are several ETOPS stories also. Just some good reading.

Edit to add this short You Tube on NZ getting ETOPS 330 on the 777-300

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_azlwNlTgI

Slight tangent.. but in that video, the B-roll at 1:24 and later has a strange dot following directly behind the rudder. What is this thing? or am I just seeing things?

UA857 wrote:

When was the first Transpacific twin flight?

CZ's B772ER CAN-LAX in 1997.

LAXintl wrote:

Your question is a bit too broad. The 737 had ETOPS for island hoping in the 1970s.

For larger planes 180-min ETOPS on 777 was approved in 1997 and used by China Southern.

Though prior other types like 757 and 767 had is long before.

Did those 737’s exceed 60 minutes from
a suitable airport?


If so, they must have had an exemption
ETOPS didn’t really start until the 767
was brought into service on the
N Atlantic with TWA, EL AL and others

I know FAA approved 767 180-min Pacific ETOPS in 1989, though 120-min was approved prior, but was not enough for routes like Hawaii.

For info today's global ETOPS regulations did not come out till early 1980s, though obviously older twin modes (such as 737-200, A300s, etc) did operate what would be considered ETOPS routes much further back.

alex0easy wrote:

UA857 wrote:

When was the first Transpacific twin flight?

CZ's B772ER CAN-LAX in 1997.

Asiana flew 767s between SEL and SEA as early as 1995:

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1995/05/18 ... 800769600/

USAirKid wrote:

travaz wrote:

I am not saying this to be rude but if you Google ETOPS there are some fascinating articles about how ETOPS came about. There are several ETOPS stories also. Just some good reading.

Edit to add this short You Tube on NZ getting ETOPS 330 on the 777-300

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_azlwNlTgI

Slight tangent.. but in that video, the B-roll at 1:24 and later has a strange dot following directly behind the rudder. What is this thing? or am I just seeing things?

It goes almost unnoticed, yet when one looks more closely, it’s impossible not to see this cord and shuttlecock hanging from the top of the tail fin. It is in fact, the “Trailing Cone”. Present on all development aircraft during the first weeks of flight tests. The nylon cable is deployed in flight, generally 1 to 1.5 times the wing span length, or about 50 metres, behind the aircraft to measure the ambient atmospheric pressure (static pressure) precisely, in the “free-stream air-flow” outside the disrupted air-flow generated by the aircraft - a key parameter for the pilots.

Rest of the article here: http://www.aeronewstv.com/en/lifestyle/ ... -tail.html

LAXintl wrote:

Your question is a bit too broad. The 737 had ETOPS for island hoping in the 1970s.

For larger planes 180-min ETOPS on 777 was approved in 1997 and used by China Southern.

Though prior other types like 757 and 767 had is long before.

Trying to imagine an inter island flight where you would be more than 60 minutes from an airport? I think you are wrong. There was no suchh thing as ETOPS in the 70's. I believe UAL had the 1st ETOPS approval in the NOPAC and CEP oceanic regions,

USAirKid wrote:

travaz wrote:

I am not saying this to be rude but if you Google ETOPS there are some fascinating articles about how ETOPS came about. There are several ETOPS stories also. Just some good reading.

Edit to add this short You Tube on NZ getting ETOPS 330 on the 777-300

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_azlwNlTgI

Slight tangent.. but in that video, the B-roll at 1:24 and later has a strange dot following directly behind the rudder. What is this thing? or am I just seeing things?

Its the price tag.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

ETOPS isn’t region-specific, but the Pacific in the late 1980s required ETOPS 180 which was approved in 1988 and first ETOPS 180 routes were started in 1989.

The opening of the Russian Far East allowed for more diversion airports and ETOPS 120 can work in the North Pacific.

GF

120 will work with some Russian overflight but eastbound out of NRT, ICN frequently benefits from use of the 180/207 exemption. Most if not all US Flag carriers are using 180 regardless of geographical local. You can do the N Atantic with 120, but not many operators are doing that these days.

BravoOne wrote:

Trying to imagine an inter island flight where you would be more than 60 minutes from an airport? I think you are wrong. There was no suchh thing as ETOPS in the 70's. I believe UAL had the 1st ETOPS approval in the NOPAC and CEP oceanic regions,

The A300 was flying the Atlantic under a 90 minute rule before ETOPS was developed. Once ETOPS was developed the A300 was grandfathered 90 minute approval.

Zeke, what rule was that a part of? This thread is about ETOPS and ETPOPS as we know it now, started in the early 80's. Who was the A300 operator back then, and what regulatory authority issued this certification.

UA857 wrote:

When was the first Transpacific twin flight?

Dunno about the first transpacific nonstop, but didn't Air New Zealand start 767 flights to LA via HNL in 1989 or 1990?

USAirKid wrote:

travaz wrote:

I am not saying this to be rude but if you Google ETOPS there are some fascinating articles about how ETOPS came about. There are several ETOPS stories also. Just some good reading.

Edit to add this short You Tube on NZ getting ETOPS 330 on the 777-300

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_azlwNlTgI

Slight tangent.. but in that video, the B-roll at 1:24 and later has a strange dot following directly behind the rudder. What is this thing? or am I just seeing things?

The airplane in the video was the initial 777-200LR in flight test configuration. The dot you're seeing is the trailing cone used for calibrating airspeed. In the video, the cone is in the reeled-in condition. In the test configuration, it would be trailing aft at 120'-150'.

BravoOne wrote:

Zeke, what rule was that a part of? This thread is about ETOPS and ETPOPS as we know it now, started in the early 80's. Who was the A300 operator back then, and what regulatory authority issued this certification.

The rule is the 60 minute rule like found in 121.161. In the 1950s ICAO did a study on the reliability of “modern” airliners, as a result of that study they extend the 60 minute rule to 90 minutes. A number of countries adopted this ICAO 90 minute rule, the FAA didn’t. This permitted Air France to operate Trans Atlantic flights with the A300 under the 90 minute rule in the mid 1970. They also had A300s based in PPT doing overwater flights beyond 60 minutes. The flights using the 90 minute rules were being mainly done obviously the Atlantic and the Bay of Bengal.

In the early 1980s ICAO setup the ETOPS study group, as a result of this were changes to ICAO Annex 6 the FAA published AC120-42 and the JAA published AMJ 120-42. The UK, France, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand and others adopted the new Annex 6 ETOPS provisions.

In 1985 the first 90 minute ETOPS flights were conducted by TWA with the 767 and Singapore Airlines with the A310.

zeke wrote:

[Air France] also had A300s based in PPT doing overwater flights beyond 60 minutes.

Papeete? Or did you mean somewhere else?

USAirKid wrote:

travaz wrote:

I am not saying this to be rude but if you Google ETOPS there are some fascinating articles about how ETOPS came about. There are several ETOPS stories also. Just some good reading.

Edit to add this short You Tube on NZ getting ETOPS 330 on the 777-300

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_azlwNlTgI

Slight tangent.. but in that video, the B-roll at 1:24 and later has a strange dot following directly behind the rudder. What is this thing? or am I just seeing things?

Called a trailing cone. It is extended in flight at least one plane length behind the aircraft to measure static air pressure free of the aircrafts slip stream to verify/calibrate an aircrafts fuselage mounted static air pressure ports.



Aircraft fuselage mounted static air pressure ports.



Good reading on the subject if you have the stamina. http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/650142.pdf

BravoOne wrote:

Trying to imagine an inter island flight where you would be more than 60 minutes from an airport? I think you are wrong. There was no suchh thing as ETOPS in the 70's. I believe UAL had the 1st ETOPS approval in the NOPAC and CEP oceanic regions,

Aloha had that Hawaii to Christmas Island Kiribati route - had dedicated 737-200 frame for that route. According to this article, they were the first airline to get US FAA approval for 737-200 ETOPS in 1986
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ion-54913/

Later in 1990s they also started service to Marshall Islands, Johnston Atoll and Midway using same frame.

You also have airlines like Air Nauru, Solomon, Air NZ that have long bounced around South Pac for decades with their 737 connecting isolated islands.

As stated prior, while ETOPS is a relatively new policy established in the 1980s, operators certainly operated aircraft in what today would be considered ETOPS scenarios.

A now passed colleague at one time worked as a training pilot for Airbus and for long periods was living in Far East and early operators such as Thai, MAS, SIA, PAL etc flew routes including such across Bay of Bengal and South China Sea using what would be 90-min rule today. There were even Atlantic A300 crossings.

I also recall back in 1970s certainly, that UK charter operators flew 737 and maybe even Bac111 to places like Azores and Canaries.

I see that the 737-200 was in fact certified with the JT-9 and JT-15/17 back in the 1985 & 1986 time period for 120 minutes. Never made the 180 minute quals.

From time to time an early video is posted of an airliner landing in the middle of the Pacific. In that early version of ETOPS the US and others had ships stationed for weather and rescue.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

From time to time an early video is posted of an airliner landing in the middle of the Pacific. In that early version of ETOPS the US and others had ships stationed for weather and rescue.

I assume you are referring to the PAA Boeing Stratocruiser that ditched near Ocean Station November back around 1956, or so. That had absolutely NOTHING to do with ETOPS..

That is how extended flights across water was made safer scores of years ago. Admittedly pretty primative

frmrCapCadet wrote:

That is how extended flights across water was made safer scores of years ago. Admittedly pretty primative

Again nothing in common with ETOPS so I don't get your point? I believe Ocean Station November was done away with in the late 70's?

As far as Pacific/US ops go:

In January 1989, American Airlines flew a 767-300ER aircraft
on a validation flight from Dallas to Hawaii under the 180-minute

By April 1989, both the 767-300ER and GE CF6-80C2
engines received type certification for 180-minute ETOPS, and
American Airlines received the first 180-minute operational certification.2

These are quotes from https://scholar.smu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1305&context=jalc which provides a very detailed history of the ETOPS process.