NozPerry
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:47 pm

I once had the cabin chief smoke an ecig onboard and set off the smoke detector in the toilet :spin:
I love the feel of a Go Around in the morning
 
NozPerry
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:49 pm

I once had the cabin chief smoke an ecig onboard and set off the smoke detector in the toilet :spin:
I love the feel of a Go Around in the morning
 
747Whale
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:56 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
litz wrote:
747Whale wrote:
As for discharging halon in an enclosed space, be far more worried about the fire than any combustion byproducts of the halon, which will be gone in moments.


Indeed ... Halon may remove the oxygen, but it doesn't remove the heat ... if your heat source isn't the fire itself, soon as the halon dissipates, you reignite.

Hmm, halon doesn’t remove any oxygen, that’s a common misconception. Halon works by ”inhibiting” the fire process.

/Fredrik


I didn't say that it did remove oxygen. You're quoting someone else, and naming me.
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:40 am

I’m sorry if you feel offended, 747Whale, but I was not quoting you or naming you explicitly. I did quote litz in order to correct a common misconception and he had quoted you. Perhaps you feel that I should have removed the quote from you, but I think to all those on this forum that cares to read a post this far down a thread, it’s obvious that I was correcting litz and not you. Again, sorry if you feel offended; it was not intentional.
 
Heinkel
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:25 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
By lighting up, the passenger had committed several several offences under UK law. More so if the aircraft was G registered.
Endangering an aircraft sits at the top of that list.


Could you please explain, how lighting up a cigarette endangers an aircraft?

I've had many flights on LH B737 in the 1980s, where a lot of pax smoked. So enlighting a cigarette per se can't be too bad for an a/c. Putting a not properly extinguished cigarette butt in the trash can is a different thing.

PS: I'm non-smoker and have ever been, so I'm happy, that smoking on a/c is prohibited today.
 
747Whale
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:23 am

Heinkel wrote:
I've had many flights on LH B737 in the 1980s, where a lot of pax smoked. So enlighting a cigarette per se can't be too bad for an a/c. Putting a not properly extinguished cigarette butt in the trash can is a different thing.

PS: I'm non-smoker and have ever been, so I'm happy, that smoking on a/c is prohibited today.


How does providing an ignition source endanger an aircraft?

Other than contaminating the air every other passenger is breathing, with secondary smoke?
Other than ignoring the needs of those who may have respiratory illnesses?
Other than introducing an ignition source inside the cabin?
Other than damaging outflow valves and the pressurization system with the smoke?

Having worked on aircraft in which smoking was permitted, I've seen badly gummed up pressurization systems, instrumentation, instrument plumbing, etc, from smokers.

The fire hazard ought not be under-estimated. What smokers used to do is largely irrelevant. Smoking is not legal for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that every passenger need not be subjected to the smoke.

Hiding and smoking in the lav is a recipe for a fire; it wouldn't be the first, and far from it.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:42 am

I have tried it once on EK and was stopped at once. It was one of those electronic vape kits.

I was upgraded to F in one those room type cabins. My old colleague was in the J cabin behind and the FA's allowed him to have drinks & dinner with me in my suite. My birthday was in 5 days and my colleague gifted me one those electronic vape cigarettes where you fill in flavored nicotine liquid? He suggested me to open it and try it. I told him it was illegal to smoke but he said its the best part of electronic cigarettes - you can smoke anywhere!

I had barely switched it on when the FA's came sprinting down the aisle! The experiment ended there. The cabin manager made an announcement on the PA that smoking is banned on the flight and this includes e-cigaretes. :P Pretty embarrassing!

Kicked my habit now! Going cold-turkey helped! :)
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:48 am

Heinkel wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
By lighting up, the passenger had committed several several offences under UK law. More so if the aircraft was G registered.
Endangering an aircraft sits at the top of that list.


Could you please explain, how lighting up a cigarette endangers an aircraft?

I've had many flights on LH B737 in the 1980s, where a lot of pax smoked. So enlighting a cigarette per se can't be too bad for an a/c. Putting a not properly extinguished cigarette butt in the trash can is a different thing.

PS: I'm non-smoker and have ever been, so I'm happy, that smoking on a/c is prohibited today.


When I was a regular smoker, I used to miss the days when we were allowed to smoke on aircraft. Airlines to/from Iran allowed smoking onboard long after it was banned in India in the early 90's.

One issue is, despite segregated seating, some smoke did get into the air affecting all passengers. Not sure if aircraft had them back then, but we had this "air-curtain" type thingie installed in the designated smoking area in our office back in India. Worked pretty well to keep the smoke out of the AC ducts and stuff. Perhaps an airline that wants to bring in smoking areas back can install these? Idea for the A380 lounges?

A maintenance engineer with Air India once told me an anecdote about how the air filtration system and pipes on their 707's became coated with tar and black soot over the years. Also on the cabin panels at the joints. Perhaps an AME will be better able to explain (if this is true).
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:29 am

I'm just a passenger, but had this weird experience when flying a redeye LAX-BWI on Spirit last April. When we landed, the purser took the microphone and told the passengers something along the lines that someone was smoking cigarette in the front lavatory in midair and was even stupid enough to put the cigarette butt in the garbage compartment. What really surprised me was the last sentence, when she said: "We know who it was and where he sits, but we'll let this simply go." I dont't know if the crew did not want to add more work for themselves, but shouldn't this be dealt with in a much more strict and uncompromising way? Blacklisting the guy forever? Handing his stupid a** to the police?
 
747Whale
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:20 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
I dont't know if the crew did not want to add more work for themselves, but shouldn't this be dealt with in a much more strict and uncompromising way? Blacklisting the guy forever? Handing his stupid a** to the police?


The crew most likely didn't know who smoked the cigarette, but used the same tactics that department stores do when they say "activate cameras on aisle 9." It's simply a statement meant to encourage people to think; nobody knows what's going on with aisle 9, and cameras are always active...it's rhetoric. Likely nobody knew who smoked that cigarette, either, but the announcement was made rhetorically to suggest they'd better not do it again.

BawliBooch wrote:
A maintenance engineer with Air India once told me an anecdote about how the air filtration system and pipes on their 707's became coated with tar and black soot over the years. Also on the cabin panels at the joints. Perhaps an AME will be better able to explain (if this is true).


Actually, a mechanic/engineer already did explain it.

Yes, cabin cigarette smoke gets everywhere. In a pressure vessel, the smoke will be found anywhere that any pressurized air escapes or travels, and it can cause all kinds of problems.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:53 pm

747Whale wrote:
Hiding and smoking in the lav is a recipe for a fire; it wouldn't be the first, and far from it.

I am trying to find an example of a cabin fire caused by cigarette smoking that eventually caused the loss of the aircraft and/or lives and can not find one.

The "big ones" .... Swissair 111, Air Canada 797, Valujet 592 and Saudia 163 were not caused by smoking. The only one I could find, Varig 820, only went as far as to suggest it "could" have been caused by smoking, but could find nothing conclusive.

This question recently came up among friends and while we all were ready to cite examples, iPads armed .... couldn't find one! Maybe you know of some?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:53 pm

AC797 - While not directly caused by smoking, the resulting actions taken (or rather not taken) by the crew on the flight deck because of the belief it was a regular trash fire caused by smokers really didn't help the situation.

While we maybe can't directly point to a fatal due to smoking, there's an abundance of near misses and lucky escapes where the smallest of differences in circumstances would have drastically changed the outcome.

Lots of regulations were changed due to the all to frequent fires started by smokers (and the above incidents). It took a long time to get round to introduce what is supposed to remove the ignition source from the equation though.
Flying is far safer, and far more pleasant now that smoking is no longer allowed.
 
747Whale
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:13 pm

Start here: https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/12/asia/air ... index.html

Or here, while indirectly related: https://www.newsweek.com/plane-crash-pi ... 51-1092505

Air Canada 797 was the result of a lav fire at a time when many lav fires were the result of smoking. Due to fire damage, the specific source could not be determined.

CAAC 2311 made a forced landing as a result of a fire started by a passenger cigarette. 25 dead, 22 injured.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:50 pm

747Whale wrote:
Air Canada 797 was the result of a lav fire at a time when many lav fires were the result of smoking. Due to fire damage, the specific source could not be determined.

The fire started outside of the lav shell, while the source could not be determined, the location could.

The only reason the lav is ever mentioned, is because that is where it appeared in the cabin first. They are not sure even if it started forward or aft of the rear pressure dome. A wiring error is suspected for two reasons ... the first indication in the cockpit of the fire was the lav flush pump circuit breakers popping as the wires through the pressure dome shorted and that particular aircraft had a rear pressure dome failure a few years before and a large part of the reconstruction was rewiring.

So ... did a large rewiring project cause the fire or is it just a coincidence that a fire started in the exact location the work was done? As you say ... it was never deternined.

It is interesting to note though, that had it been a cigarette fire in the trash bin, the ensuing results would not have occurred, as the first actions of the Purser was to empty a Halon extinguisher into the trash bin, per procedures of the day.

Your comments, and those of ChrisKen about smoking in general are well founded and would be more accurate today. Namely, as smoking is no longer allowed, the lav is were people go. However, in 1983, smoking was allowed at passenger seats and that is where most usually smoked. Historically, when smoking was permitted, that is where cabin fires occured. Usually ashes and newpapers/magazines in seat pockets.

It is interesting to note though, that other than the CAAC accident, the examples cited are not caused by smoking or cigarettes as an ignition source, as much as caused by smokers .... dearly wishing to smoke. (I was not aware of that one, I'll have to check it out. thanks.

I am not a smoker, I can only speculate as to how extreme the addiction is.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
747Whale
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:14 pm

Lav fires used to be more frequent, and lav trash fires weren't uncommon, especially given that the trash receptacle was often used to dispose of a cigarette. It's for that reason that some aircraft have a dedicated lav trash receptacle fire extinguisher.
 
stratclub
Posts: 700
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:39 pm

Trash bin fire extinguishers are mounted above the trash bin and will auto deploy at 170 F.

http://kiddetechnologies.com/images/upl ... es_low.pdf

Image
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Pilots/Flight Attendants: has a passenger ever tried to smoke on your flight?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:20 pm

A year or so ago on a United flight I'm certain someone was smoking. It was a late night flight, 737, and virtually everyone was sleeping except the FAs, so...

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