SRA12
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Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:16 am

I was just on a flight where i noticed spots, in various places, throughout the cabin on a Delta b767 where sunlight was coming *through* the fuselage of the aircraft. This was only on the side facing the sun. To be clear, it was “glowing” through the fuselage. This was *not* a reflection. The orange glow could not be blocked and you could cleary see the honeycomb inside the fuselage.

I have never seen or heard of this, and neither had the flight attendants. They took pictures (so did i, but darned if i can figure out how to post them here) and went to show the pilots. The pilots said “the plane needs to be reinsulated, and they would take a maintainance note”. No other action was taken.

So... my question is... is the normal? And does the reinsulation story make sense??

Happy to post pics- let me know where and how. I have the plane number, etc as well
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:49 am

My theory: If you're in the cabin there's a lining of sorts inside the fuselage. That's the plastic stuff that protects you from the cold and hard actual fuselage. If you think of the window assembly as a transparent tube through the fuselage and liner, light can leak out the sides of said tube and shine through the lining in other places.

But I've been wrong before.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:58 am

Yeah, this should be interesting. I've no clue how to post pictures here, but I'll be waiting to see what this looks like.

How big were these "glowing" areas?

"The plane needs to be reinsulated"??? That's funny.
When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
 
Max Q
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:53 am

This is a normal phenomenon associated
with scheduled chemtrailing.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:01 am

Max Q wrote:
This is a normal phenomenon associated
with scheduled chemtrailing.


Image
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
mmo
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:42 am

Ok, let's think about this. First of all, the cabin is pressurized. Any "holes" as you describe are going to make pressurization more difficult and would make the cabin more difficult to control. Really think they were actually "holes"???

There are all sorts of lights in the cabin, they do become dislodges and fall out of place. Perhaps that was it. I seriously doubt the "holes"!!!!
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
SRA12
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:13 pm

Of course these ar not holes, guys. The light was a glow coming through the fuselage. And is wasn't right near the window assembly. They were maybe about 7” long and 1/2 wide
 
stratclub
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:21 pm

Not holes in the fuselage exterior skin. What you saw is the honey comb that the interior sidewall panels are made of. This example shows the decorative layer the passengers see, the face layer of the honeycomb and the honeycomb layer. When all three layers are laminated together the panel is about 1/4" to 3/8" thick. The exterior fuselage skin that contains pressurization is several inches outboard of the sidewall panel.

Image

The pilot was telling you what he thought you wanted to hear so you would go away. After you went back to your seat, the crew probably got a good laugh that you actually believed their "made up" explanation.
 
pikachu
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:54 pm

check your pm and send me the pics. I will post. thx.
 
SRA12
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:26 pm

 
SRA12
Topic Author
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:26 pm

Pics above- take a look. And no, none of this was coming from anywhere else in the cabin
 
B2707SST
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:35 pm

Aluminum is opaque even in extremely thin layers (think aluminum foil), so there's no way this light is coming through the fuselage itself unless you were simultaneously having a decompression event!

Pretty sure this is light leakage from the windows shining through the sidewall panels that stratclub posted above. As Starlionblue mentioned, there is probably a small gap between the sidewall layers around the window frames that's letting a little sliver of light through.
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:04 pm

Could also be a light installation that tore itself loose.

Although tbh, I once flew an ATR where the service door wouldn't close properly, and you could actually stick a finger out through the gap into the airflow. How on earth the pressurization system kept up with that gap is beyond me.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:04 pm

B2707SST wrote:
Aluminum is opaque even in extremely thin layers (think aluminum foil), so there's no way this light is coming through the fuselage itself unless you were simultaneously having a decompression event!

Pretty sure this is light leakage from the windows shining through the sidewall panels that stratclub posted above. As Starlionblue mentioned, there is probably a small gap between the sidewall layers around the window frames that's letting a little sliver of light through.


I think that's the right answer. The light was coming from the windows, leaking a bit into the interior behind the panels. Suppose you'd remove those panels you'd see light shining through next to the windows at the parts that are normally hidden by the panels.
 
mmo
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:33 pm

Looks like sunlight leaking through the panels, nothing more at all.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
SRA12
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:03 pm

Thanks for the answers

Just to reiterate, this was occurring on almost all the panels, up and down the fuselage.

And also, I should mention that while most of this was between the windows, where i guess a frame rail (or whatever its called is), i also saw it below the windows. Do either of the above change anything?

In any case, is this normal? Have others seen this before? It would seem like something (maybe an inner window seal) is worn?
 
Max Q
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:42 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
Max Q wrote:
This is a normal phenomenon associated
with scheduled chemtrailing.


Image






I like it !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:05 am

Max Q wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
Max Q wrote:
This is a normal phenomenon associated
with scheduled chemtrailing.


Image


I like it !


Sierra Hotel Aeronautics. Purveyors of fine Chemtrail Operations gear. The t-shirt and cap are great.

https://sierrahotel.net/collections/chemtrail-dept

Image
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:47 am

Absolutely normal. I've seen it plenty of times, even on the ground. Light from the windows.
When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
 
planecane
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:45 am

Sun at the right angle to shine through a the window plastic (whatever the inner window material is) and "project" onto the sidewall.
 
Max Q
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:32 am

Starlionblue wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:

Image


I like it !


Sierra Hotel Aeronautics. Purveyors of fine Chemtrail Operations gear. The t-shirt and cap are great.

https://sierrahotel.net/collections/chemtrail-dept

Image



I have to get some of this,


Before my next mission
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
stratclub
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:38 pm

Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:39 am

Starlionblue wrote:
SAAFNAV wrote:
SRA12 wrote:
Dude i didnt “believe” thier explanation. I will find a place to post some pics. But to you chemtrail aholes, go effe off


May I suggest you leave the forum then?
It's a common in-joke. Just wait until you ask about runway length and conveyor belts come up.. Your head will explode.


Speaking of conveyor belts, how would they affect the light patterns...? :D

IDK, but I smell a new MythBusters Episode coming up. Might be worth a look see if Kari has got back in shape after having her baby.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:20 am

Max Q wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
Max Q wrote:

I like it !


Sierra Hotel Aeronautics. Purveyors of fine Chemtrail Operations gear. The t-shirt and cap are great.

https://sierrahotel.net/collections/chemtrail-dept

Image


I have to get some of this,

Before my next mission


When I make Captain I'm sewing the cloth patch onto my nav bag.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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seahawk
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:46 am

No you won´t, unless you have a strong desire to get into pointless discussions with conspiracy theorists whenever you take a break in uniform and with your nav bag in view. And then there are the spotters. Somebody will notice such a sticker even if you just put it on the waste water lorry and they will post it in on social media and then somebody will see it and will complain and it will just be a pin in the ass in the end. In today´s cooperate culture the customer is always right, even when he is bat shit crazy.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:53 am

seahawk wrote:
No you won´t, unless you have a strong desire to get into pointless discussions with conspiracy theorists whenever you take a break in uniform and with your nav bag in view. And then there are the spotters. Somebody will notice such a sticker even if you just put it on the waste water lorry and they will post it in on social media and then somebody will see it and will complain and it will just be a pin in the ass in the end. In today´s cooperate culture the customer is always right, even when he is bat shit crazy.


Yeah I know.... But I'll hold onto the dream until upgrade day comes. ;)
Last edited by Starlionblue on Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Max Q
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:15 am

I’ve seen far nuttier stickers on flight bags
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
travaz
Posts: 625
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:27 am

Everyone has probably see the "fat" Boeing airplane stickers a lot of people would put on their flight bags. I actually saw a person ask the pilot if that was the new 737 that was coming out! Of course the Pilot told the passenger that yes that is the new Max. It was pretty funny
 
aeropix
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:10 pm

These "light leaks" are a well known phenomenon and as some of the above posters have commented they are associated with unwanted gaps in the window assemblies. Interesting side note, on the Boeing (and probably Airbus) factory test flights this is a part of the flight test profile, checking for these kind of light leaks. The aircraft has to be turned so that each side of the cabin is in direct sunlight in turn for quite some time so that the cabin engineers can check for the light leaks and have the manufacturer plug them up before delivery.

Since Delta does so much cabin retrofitting in-house what you saw may be a product of the extensive refits that was not discovered during a similar flight test, as they perhaps do not do such a test after their own in-house modifications. So, the crew were not having a laugh at you and I know if it were me I would definitely appreciate the observation and write it up in the tech log for further investigation.
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:19 pm

aeropix wrote:
These "light leaks" are a well known phenomenon and as some of the above posters have commented they are associated with unwanted gaps in the window assemblies. Interesting side note, on the Boeing (and probably Airbus) factory test flights this is a part of the flight test profile, checking for these kind of light leaks. The aircraft has to be turned so that each side of the cabin is in direct sunlight in turn for quite some time so that the cabin engineers can check for the light leaks and have the manufacturer plug them up before delivery.


If a "light leak" were to be seen on a Boeing production flight it would be squawked but there are no requirements written into the production document nor is the airplane specifically flown to align with various sun angles looking for "light leaks". With only 1 crewmember in back on narrow bodies and 2 on wide bodies during most flights they don't have time to spend looking for something that is a rare occurrence. Also, where do you want to put the sun -- there are many different angles that would produce or wouldn't produce the phenomena show above. That being said, there is one customer who during 777 acceptance flights did require a sun angle off each wing (+/-) to look for "light leaks" -- didn't have much luck.
 
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CALTECH
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Re: Sunlight *through* fuselage on inflight B767

Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:28 pm

SRA12 wrote:
I was just on a flight where i noticed spots, in various places, throughout the cabin on a Delta b767 where sunlight was coming *through* the fuselage of the aircraft. This was only on the side facing the sun. To be clear, it was “glowing” through the fuselage. This was *not* a reflection. The orange glow could not be blocked and you could cleary see the honeycomb inside the fuselage.

I have never seen or heard of this, and neither had the flight attendants. They took pictures (so did i, but darned if i can figure out how to post them here) and went to show the pilots. The pilots said “the plane needs to be reinsulated, and they would take a maintainance note”. No other action was taken.

So... my question is... is the normal? And does the reinsulation story make sense??

Happy to post pics- let me know where and how. I have the plane number, etc as well


Actually, if the insulation was a little loose around the window panes or the reveal had a little gap, you would have light leaking through and lighting up the composite inside of the sidewall panels giving you the effect you photographed. In some of your photos, you can make out the clips that hold the pane up against the fuselage. It is just light leaking through between the insulation and the reveal of the sidewall panel, window......

You can see the reveals in the photos......

Image

Image
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