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BREECH wrote:Some long time ago I watched an Air Crash Investigation about the crash of ATR72 (or maybe 42) somewhere in the US which was caused by icing and ineffective de-icing.
ELBOB wrote:BREECH wrote:Some long time ago I watched an Air Crash Investigation about the crash of ATR72 (or maybe 42) somewhere in the US which was caused by icing and ineffective de-icing.
This again?
B777LRF wrote:The best aircraft in adverse weather will be relatively slow, have thick wings and a sturdy construction. Look towards Russia for your answer, it will probably say 'An-26'. As for the worst, that's a more difficult question to answer, but the CL200 could be an answer. Note that 'worst' does not equal 'dangerous', just that it's less forgiving than e.g. the aforementioned Antonov.
Max Q wrote:Holding with flaps extended is a dubious practice, especially in icing conditions and inexplicable in the AA Atr crash
The last thing you want to do in icing conditions is add any drag, especially after starting to accumulate ice on the wings
And completely unnecessary to do so, no holding pattern is that tight it can’t be flown clean in a straight wing turboprop
Flighty wrote:One time I did notice that an EMB-170 could not start up in -10F until they piped in heat to the cockpit/avionics for about 30 minutes. Is Bombardier better in that respect?
bhill wrote:the C-130 does ok...to Antarctica and some of the hurricane flights...come to think of it, NOAA has a pretty robust fleet for what their missions are...
Max Q wrote:bhill wrote:the C-130 does ok...to Antarctica and some of the hurricane flights...come to think of it, NOAA has a pretty robust fleet for what their missions are...
Correct,
The C130 has a hot bleed air from four
turboprops that heat a nice hot wing and horizontal stabilizer leading edge in addition to engine anti ice
It has a very robust icing protection system
but a jet with a swept wing is unbeatable in that respect
Redbellyguppy wrote:You guys realize that jet aircraft see -40C substantially every time they are flown, right?
Redbellyguppy wrote:You guys realize that jet aircraft see -40C substantially every time they are flown, right?
Max Q wrote:
A thick wing will be more prone to Ice accumulation, especially at the slower speeds associated with such an aircraft
A swept, thin wing attached to a jet
aircraft is least vulnerable to icing
In fact it’s rare you have to use the leading edge deice, although you will sometimes use engine heat
Icing has a much harder time sticking to such an aero foil, it’s never been a concern on any jet transports ive flown
B777LRF wrote:The best aircraft in adverse weather will be relatively slow, have thick wings and a sturdy construction. Look towards Russia for your answer, it will probably say 'An-26'. As for the worst, that's a more difficult question to answer, but the CL200 could be an answer. Note that 'worst' does not equal 'dangerous', just that it's less forgiving than e.g. the aforementioned Antonov.
Woodreau wrote:But just because it’s made in Canada or Brazil doesn’t mean it’s better in warmer or extremely cold weather.
KCharlie wrote:Max Q wrote:
A thick wing will be more prone to Ice accumulation, especially at the slower speeds associated with such an aircraft
A swept, thin wing attached to a jet
aircraft is least vulnerable to icing
In fact it’s rare you have to use the leading edge deice, although you will sometimes use engine heat
Icing has a much harder time sticking to such an aero foil, it’s never been a concern on any jet transports ive flown
You are wrong - thinner wings collect more ice.
https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Icing_-_Collection_Efficiency
https://aircrafticing.grc.nasa.gov/1_1_3_4.html
Also, on modern airliners, the automatic anti-icing system can engage on a surprisingly high percentage of flights through colder regions.
KCharlie wrote:I don't care what airplanes you've flown, I care about physics and facts.
Thicker wings accumulate less ice than thinner wings.
KCharlie wrote:Also, on larger airliners, holding at Flaps 1 (leading edge deployed) is usually allowed. I'm fact, the flaps-up ice accumulation can sometimes be worse than that with the leading edge deployed.
WildcatYXU wrote:Well, First Air flies 13 ATR 42's in Canadian arctic areas and I don't recall any news of these aircraft falling out of the skies due to icing*. OTOH I remember some AC flight cancellations on YYC - YZF route because of temperatures at YZF being lower than the minimum ground temperature allowed for the CRJ 705.
So no, the fact that the aircraft was built in Canada doesn't mean that it is better suited for cold climates than an aircraft built elsewhere.
* There was a West Wind Aviation ATR 42 crash at CZFD recently, however it seems that they attempted a take off with contaminated aircraft. The investigation is not finished yet.
Woodreau wrote:[photoid][/photoid]Every Airbus Bombardier Embraer Beechcraft aircraft I’ve ever flown in airline service all have the same limitation -40c/-40F for engine start.
There’s a few additional things to check in the cold weather operations section of the FOM
But just because it’s made in Canada or Brazil doesn’t mean it’s better in warmer or extremely cold weather.