Hi everyone,

I’m a student pilot with 50 hours already logged in. I’m still struggling with landings when I go for my solo flights, although there’s a few good ones here and there. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m nervous or I just don’t do well on my own. I’ve practiced landings (soft-field and normal) with my instructor, and I tend to do very well after the first go. However, when I go for my solo, I always do terribly. I always either bounce a bit or land somewhat hard. This never happens when I practice with my instructor. Now I’m just worried that I’ll never land properly on my own, and I don’t know if it’s just happening to me. I’m getting close to my cross country and I feel discouraged that I still can’t do smooth landings constantly. Do you think it’ll just take me some more time to finally click? But again, I do well when it’s a dual flight.

Since your landings are fine when the instructor is with you it’s not a lack of capability on your part


Rather, it sounds like you’re getting nervous by yourself

Discuss it with your instructor, perhaps ask him to stand by the runway and watch for a few landings

Knowing he’s there may well ease your jitters, also see if he’d come along with you but not say anything, like he’s a passenger (unless absolutely necessary)


You’ll be fine, everyone gets nervous, it will ease off


Also, don’t expect every landing to be smooth but make sure you’re looking at the
far end of the runway as you cross the approach end and start your flare

Max Q wrote:

Since your landings are fine when the instructor is with you it’s not a lack of capability on your part


Rather, it sounds like you’re getting nervous by yourself

Discuss it with your instructor, perhaps ask him to stand by the runway and watch for a few landings

Knowing he’s there may well ease your jitters, also see if he’d come along with you but not say anything, like he’s a passenger (unless absolutely necessary)


You’ll be fine, everyone gets nervous, it will ease off


Also, don’t expect every landing to be smooth but make sure you’re looking at the
far end of the runway as you cross the approach end and start your flare

Consistent, smooth landings are nice, as long as it’s not too hard it’s more important you touch down in the TDZ


Most of all it takes lots and lots of practice and the experience that provides


That goes for student pilots or 747 captains

Max Q wrote:

Since your landings are fine when the instructor is with you it’s not a lack of capability on your part


Rather, it sounds like you’re getting nervous by yourself

Discuss it with your instructor, perhaps ask him to stand by the runway and watch for a few landings

Knowing he’s there may well ease your jitters, also see if he’d come along with you but not say anything, like he’s a passenger (unless absolutely necessary)


You’ll be fine, everyone gets nervous, it will ease off


Also, don’t expect every landing to be smooth but make sure you’re looking at the
far end of the runway as you cross the approach end and start your flare

Thank you for making me feel better about this and the suggestions. I totally agree with you in terms of me getting nervous when flying solo which negatively influenced my landings. I just hope I'm not the only one who still can't land properly at 50 hours!!! Most of my friends can already perform really well by the time they do their cross country flights, and I feel like I'm not progressing as quick as them.

When you're trying to land solo don't worry about your landing in the moment. Just stay cool calm and collected and think about your basics to landing. If you stress about your landings to the point you're thinking about it while performing a landing it's going to affect it.

I remember landing at Fullerton when I first did some solo work and got into PIO pretty badly. Poor 152 bounced down the runway and there wasn't much room for errors at that airport. After I taxied off the active I had to take a couple of minutes to collect myself. I made sure it never happened again.

Sounds like you could use a few sessions doing more pattern work. You'll get it.

Are your landings unsafe or are they just firm? If you can land safely by yourself, just keep on trucking and try not to worry if they're not as smooth as you'd like. It'll come with time.

You won't fail a checkride for a "thunker" but you can easily fail a checkride for trying to grease it and floating beyond your touchdown zone.

You don’t say what type you are training in but some light aircraft will fly, and land, differently when half the payload is removed.

ikolkyo wrote:

When you're trying to land solo don't worry about your landing in the moment. Just stay cool calm and collected and think about your basics to landing. If you stress about your landings to the point you're thinking about it while performing a landing it's going to affect it.

That is actually very true!! I tend to overthink when I solo and always want to make sure I can do a good landing (which gives me the opposite result unfortunately).

Alot of poor landings are a result of not being on speed. Make sure the aircraft is perfectly trimmed for 1.3x VSO, pick an aim point and set power for altitude, power idle when the runway is made, look at the end of the runway and flare based on your periphrial vision filling with runway.

CFI/CFII

wetpantsmcgee wrote:

I remember landing at Fullerton when I first did some solo work and got into PIO pretty badly. Poor 152 bounced down the runway and there wasn't much room for errors at that airport. After I taxied off the active I had to take a couple of minutes to collect myself. I made sure it never happened again.

Sounds like you could use a few sessions doing more pattern work. You'll get it.

Wow really? So you couldn't even do an overshoot? I bounced 3 times today while doing a short-field landing but managed to pull the control column further back to actually not bounce again. And yes that's true, I will definitely talk to my instructor about doing some extra pattern work!

Don’t over think it. You’re learning. Smoothness will come in time, as long as you’re not damaging anything or hurting yourself, don’t worry about smooth, worry about learning the fundamentals and your smoothness will come with repetition. I haven’t instructed in close to 20 years but, maybe next time you’re doing pattern work, let the instructor do a couple landings and just watch. Watch how he controls power, watch how he adjusts speed and attitude, watch when he flares. Lastly, always remember “any landing you walk away from is a good landing, and any landing you can use the airplane again afterward is a great landing.”

N353SK wrote:

Are your landings unsafe or are they just firm? If you can land safely by yourself, just keep on trucking and try not to worry if they're not as smooth as you'd like. It'll come with time.

You won't fail a checkride for a "thunker" but you can easily fail a checkride for trying to grease it and floating beyond your touchdown zone.

Haha yes that's true!! Just curious, if I do an overshoot, will I fail my checkride? My landings were actually pretty safe I guess? I always managed to stay in the centre line but either bounced a bit when doing a soft-field landing (probably didn't pull back enough) or land a bit too hard when doing a normal landing (maybe pulled back too soon).

26point2 wrote:

You don’t say what type you are training in but some light aircraft will fly, and land, differently when half the payload is removed.

I fly the Cessna 172! It does love to fly and tend to float a bit sometimes?

Same boat as you are. I just "hold it off" and keep slowing the aircraft down via flare until I stall (this doesn't always happen for me). The trick is doing it fairly close to the ground and not stalling too high by rounding out at the right time (or I may let the aircraft sink if I'm too high, then flare again, although I may nose-strike if not careful). The aircraft won't want to bounce back up as much if there isn't much lift left.

Varsity1 wrote:

Alot of poor landings are a result of not being on speed. Make sure the aircraft is perfectly trimmed for 1.3x VSO, pick an aim point and set power for altitude, power idle when the runway is made, look at the end of the runway and flare based on your periphrial vision filling with runway.

CFI/CFII

Oh I see, that does make sense! I always tend to not look too far and maybe this is way I can't land smoothly. I also have this problem of not pulling back enough which I guess really influenced my landings too.

flyboy730 wrote:

Don’t over think it. You’re learning. Smoothness will come in time, as long as you’re not damaging anything or hurting yourself, don’t worry about smooth, worry about learning the fundamentals and your smoothness will come with repetition. I haven’t instructed in close to 20 years but, maybe next time you’re doing pattern work, let the instructor do a couple landings and just watch. Watch how he controls power, watch how he adjusts speed and attitude, watch when he flares. Lastly, always remember “any landing you walk away from is a good landing, and any landing you can use the airplane again afterward is a great landing.”

Hahaha yes I totally agree, really appreciate the support!! I will talk to my instructor and see if he could to do some extra circuits with me!

Relax, we all had 50hrs at one point and we’ve all gone through the jitters in some way or another, give it time, soon enough you will completely understand and embrace the the concept of “flying by the seat of your pants”.
Practice hard and study harder, I’m sure you are well within the learning curve.

I just soloed last weekend and the most helpful thing I have done is walk my self through everything. Talk to your self even call out "50, 40, 30, etc..." and just pretend your instructor is there right next to you! you know you can do it. its just all mental!

CarlosSi wrote:

Same boat as you are. I just "hold it off" and keep slowing the aircraft down via flare until I stall (this doesn't always happen for me). The trick is doing it fairly close to the ground and not stalling too high. The aircraft won't want to bounce back up as much if there isn't much lift left.

Really?? That's actually a very good point! I will try flare a bit later and maybe that would help prevent hard landings. I tend to flare a bit too soon and not pulling back enough, maybe this is why it bounces when I do soft-field landings?

trent772 wrote:

Relax, we all had 50hrs at one point and we’ve all gone through the jitters in some way or another, give it time, soon enough you will completely understand and embrace the the concept of “flying by the seat of your pants”.
Practice hard and study harder, I’m sure you are well within the learning curve.

Haha yes that's so true, maybe one day it'll finally click!! Thanks for the support, really appreciate it!

jppilot97 wrote:

N353SK wrote:

Are your landings unsafe or are they just firm? If you can land safely by yourself, just keep on trucking and try not to worry if they're not as smooth as you'd like. It'll come with time.

You won't fail a checkride for a "thunker" but you can easily fail a checkride for trying to grease it and floating beyond your touchdown zone.

Haha yes that's true!! Just curious, if I do an overshoot, will I fail my checkride?

Yes.

Private pilot PTS standards for a normal landing:

"Touch down at a proper pitch attitude, within 400 feet beyond or on the specified point, with no side drift, and with the airplane’s longitudinal axis aligned with and over the runway center/landing path."

Short field is identical except that you need to tough town on or within 200 feet of your specified point.

jppilot97 wrote:

CarlosSi wrote:

Same boat as you are. I just "hold it off" and keep slowing the aircraft down via flare until I stall (this doesn't always happen for me). The trick is doing it fairly close to the ground and not stalling too high. The aircraft won't want to bounce back up as much if there isn't much lift left.

Really?? That's actually a very good point! I will try flare a bit later and maybe that would help prevent hard landings. I tend to flare a bit too soon and not pulling back enough, maybe this is why it bounces when I do soft-field landings?

I haven't done soft-field yet (been practicing short field though). I wouldn't say delay the flare, rather flare as long as possible to bleed of the aircraft's tendency to bounce back up. As far as smoothness, depends on when that "stall" happens.

I sometimes flare rather soon. I'd just let the aircraft sink just enough until you're comfortable continuing the flare, but like I said, I sometimes sink too much and I nose-strike.

Although perhaps you may already be doing that. I've had some pretty "soft" landings, only to realize the aircraft didn't quite stick because it was still going fast enough to keep up in the air.

NYCjacob wrote:

I just soloed last weekend and the most helpful thing I have done is walk my self through everything. Talk to your self even call out "50, 40, 30, etc..." and just pretend your instructor is there right next to you! you know you can do it. its just all mental!

Totally agree, I will do that for sure!! And congrats on your solo!

I was the opposite when I did my training. I'd do really, really well on my solo flights or even with an instructor but as soon as I had an examiner on board, I'd keep messing up. Just nerves in my case.

I cannot recommend this video more. This is the landing technique I have been teaching since 1998. I land the 777 with this technique, and I land the Cessna with this as well. It's NOT what anybody else has ever taught you, it's foolproof, and sure for any aircraft you will ever fly in the future. If landings need help, this is the answer. It is the best hour of training you may ever receive.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... QEw_QLsu3W

There is also an iPad APP in the APP store from this ex-QANTAS trainer, search for "Jacobson Flare" in the APP store. It will be the most enduring, and best training value for money you may spend in your aviation career. At least, that is my impression from my 30+ years of flying.

Varsity1 wrote:

Alot of poor landings are a result of not being on speed. Make sure the aircraft is perfectly trimmed for 1.3x VSO, pick an aim point and set power for altitude, power idle when the runway is made, look at the end of the runway and flare based on your periphrial vision filling with runway.

CFI/CFII

Basically...what he said. What I used to do when I was having problems with landings, was to sit down with the instructor and go over landings, (from downwind to touchdown), step by step...while we were still on the ground. Write down the procedures sequentially to make your own checklist. Memorize the list and take it with you, so you can refer to it if need be.

There are already check lists covering this but writing down the steps can sometimes help it sink in a bit deeper.

The speed thing is very important. Just before my flight test, I was having a heck of a time with my touch downs. I was floating, or bouncing or bobbing up as I was flaring. After getting some fresh eyes on what I was doing, it turns out my issues were too much speed over the fence, and not focusing on the end of the runway. .

After a few crappy landings, (not really hard...just not smooth), I was narrow focusing on my touch downs, and not concentrating enough on my approach...and that's really the kicker. It helped to stretch out my downwind so I had more time on final to get my act together.

I'm a big believer in the concept that the best chance of a good landing, comes from a stable approach.

One more thing; Remember that when you're flying solo...your plane can be a couple of hundred pounds lighter than when you are flying with an instructor, and that makes a huge difference in how a small plane flies and handles.

Good luck and have fun.

My first solo landing was easily the worst landing I ever made (before or since!). It was in a Socata Rallye Club, a very forgiving aircraft with full span flaps and good STOL features, which was just as well as the runway at the airfield where I trained was only 1000ft long. We were taught to do glide approaches (throttle at idle!) with full flaps and, although that really sharpened your skills, in the Rallye that resulted in a very steep glide path. On my first solo I flared a little too high and also ballooned and the landing that followed was just a series of 3 bounces with the stall warning blaring and I was stopped within a few feet of the final bounce! Although I had been very relaxed during most of the circuit I think I became tense during the final approach when I realised there would be quite a few people watching and I can remember thinking that my landing had better be good - big mistake as that thought suddenly made me quite tense!

Just a thought:
If possible and allowed, could it be an option to record your landing with a few GoPro's? One recording the instruments and outside view, one recording your pilot action.
You may then debrief your solo flight - perhaps with your instructor - and possibly find out some differences between your instructor guided landings and your solos.

The thing that clicked for me was try to keep the plane flying for as long as possible. Eventually it will just settle on to the runway.

In a 172 with only 1 person I'd be full flaps and speed below 65. I'm assuming you're taught that speed to be 65. Those would need discussion with your instructor before putting into practice.

Airspeed is king as always, keep it pinned and hold her off. It’s most likely the nerves. I used to have a similar issue simply from carrying to much speed on final itself. Best of luck!

Taking the extra weight out always feels wierd for the first few hours and the plane is easier to be disturbed by outside forces. A high flare to a thump is always embarrassing but it gives line guys and controllers something to laugh about. It all comes down to power management on final and your peripheral vision below the last 100ft to judge your height. You are also probably starring at the noise of the plane by yourself..look down the runway and feel the seat of your pants. If you feel that sinking feeling, add a quarter inch of throttle to help arrest the decent rate. Don't like it...go around.

It's the weight issue - a heavier aircraft will float much less than one with only one person.

Load 200 lb of ballast and see what happens...

Yes the lack of instructor's weight might be the difference and you're letting it make you nervous. Talk it over with your instructor and get his advice, but biggest thing is relax! At 50 hours you are still a rookie student and still learning. The same thing will apply at 5000 hours, you will still be learning! You'd be surprised at how often veteran airline pilots who normally make smooth landings get one that they hide from the passengers afterwards and hope no one was watching LOL.

You're worried about being a student at 50 hours?

Nearly four decades later, I'm still a student pilot.

If at some point I feel that mastery has occurred, I shall find something else to do. At present, I'm in no danger of needing something else to do.

It was said that Gichin Funikoshi, an Okinawan master of Karate who brought the art to Japan and then to the world, lay on his deathbed, and made shuto, uki, the sword hand block, over and over. After a long period of time, he was heard to say "Aah. Now I get it." He was in his nineties.

Good luck perfecting your landings at 50 hours. 40 years from now you're still working on it, you're probably on track.

aeropix wrote:

I cannot recommend this video more. This is the landing technique I have been teaching since 1998. I land the 777 with this technique, and I land the Cessna with this as well. It's NOT what anybody else has ever taught you, it's foolproof, and sure for any aircraft you will ever fly in the future. If landings need help, this is the answer. It is the best hour of training you may ever receive.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... QEw_QLsu3W

There is also an iPad APP in the APP store from this ex-QANTAS trainer, search for "Jacobson Flare" in the APP store. It will be the most enduring, and best training value for money you may spend in your aviation career. At least, that is my impression from my 30+ years of flying.

This video is great!

747Whale wrote:

You're worried about being a student at 50 hours?

Nearly four decades later, I'm still a student pilot.

If at some point I feel that mastery has occurred, I shall find something else to do. At present, I'm in no danger of needing something else to do.

It was said that Gichin Funikoshi, an Okinawan master of Karate who brought the art to Japan and then to the world, lay on his deathbed, and made shuto, uki, the sword hand block, over and over. After a long period of time, he was heard to say "Aah. Now I get it." He was in his nineties.

Good luck perfecting your landings at 50 hours. 40 years from now you're still working on it, you're probably on track.

Agreed, having a learning mentality is always critical!

Couple other things that helped me on landings:

1. Slower power reductions over the fence: there's a lot going on in the last several seconds that influence your pitch, including you pulling, propwash, airspeed bleeding, etc. I used to destabilize my approaches by pulling power too quickly and guessing the amount of backpressure to increase. Any deviation on speed means the reaction is different. Slowing the rate of throttle reduction helps you adapt better to the reduced propwash and stay stabilized all the way down
2. Calculating an actual approach speed for your weight: your Vso scales with the square root of weight, so must your approach speed. If you're well below the MTOW for which the Vso is calculated, then figure out how many knots to knock off to reduce floating. IMHO this understanding also makes you a better pilot more generally.