dakota123
Topic Author
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:03 pm

Typical pre-delivery squawks

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:18 pm

During pre-delivery checkouts, what's a typical squawk sheet look like? Are there ever things that trip into flight safety, or is it typically poor carpet fit and the like?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 1312
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:44 pm

What kind of plane? Usually a variety of appearance write-ups, uncommonly more serious ones.

GF
 
dakota123
Topic Author
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:03 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:17 pm

Was thinking mainly of airliners...

More serious ones? Do tell. Just curious as to how well the factories get them right right out of the box.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2877
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:01 pm

The larger airlines that have Boeings and Airbus deliveries have full time staff at the factory deliveriy centers that make sure that deliveries are not hindered by significant open issues when the customer acceptance flights are made. Delta was having serious issues with noise levels in the cabin and was considering the rejection of some of the early -800's. Not sure how that was eventually sorted out. I personally do not recall any show stoppers on the MD11 or 777 aircraft that I was involved with.
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7299
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:10 am

Don't know about pre-delivery squawks, but I've dealt with quite a few delivery squawks, over the years.
A couple that come to mind:
-B757 that started exhibiting external power problems. We found a pin had backed out at the external power relay.
-B757 whose auto-throttle kept disengaging. We found a wire that hadn't been crimped at the TMC.
-B747-8, we chased an HF Data problem, pretty much from day 1. Found a bad crimp in the coax.

There's a few things that crop up, but these stood out because of how long we chased them.
When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 1312
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:41 am

By delivery, the plane is ready, flight 1 and flight 2 might be interesting. I’ve seen an engine fail to relight in-flight. An out-of-rig condition that took a few flights to get right. APU that wouldn’t start at the top of the envelope. Paint and interior issues versus “green” plane are much more common.

GF
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3216
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:25 am

Galley Mats, nose wheel steering, trim and hydraulic leaks are fairly common. Those are things that are hard to be completely accurate before a plane goes through a pressure cycle. Those aren’t safety issues.

The galley mats issue is due to the plane expanding and contracting causing them to bubble up when pressurized.
 
stratclub
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:38 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:07 pm

Airlines customer love unresolved squawks because anything not resolved to the customers satisfaction goes to contracts and some dollar amount is deducted from the price of the aircraft. Just depends on the customer and doesn't happen very often though and usually not for anything that affects airworthiness of the aircraft.

If the customer has orders from their home office to drag their heals in accepting the aircraft because of say late financing, they sometimes will write a mountain of "chicken salad" things up.

An important variable is that the longer an airplane is in production the fewer customer write ups their will be. You might say that over time, the factory gets better at manufacturing defect free aircraft.
 
dangle
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:45 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:22 pm

The WSJ did an article on this last year on a 787 delivery, if you can get through the paywall:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-inspect-every-piece-of-a-widebody-airplane-1504105684
 
User avatar
7BOEING7
Posts: 2732
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:09 pm

I guess I'll add my 2 cents worth (32+ years, 10,0000+ hours of production flight test).

Points made by BravoOne, Galaxyflyer and Newbiepilot are all good. Customers dragging their heals is also true but even then their squawks are generally somewhat reasonable and it doesn't happen very often.

As far as Boeing airplanes are concerned the main reason for fewer defects IMHO is how and when the airplane was designed/built. Newer airplanes (747-4, 767, 777 & 787), once the bugs have been worked out, have always had a lower number of B/C flights than any of the 737 models. The main things that have helped decrease the 737 flight rates over the years are design improvements (newer black boxes/engines) or modifications of inflight production tolerances (airplane trim). The factory in all cases has been up to speed very rapidly and in the old days only occasionally faltered when somebody went on vacation.
 
dakota123
Topic Author
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:03 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:10 pm

dangle wrote:
The WSJ did an article on this last year on a 787 delivery, if you can get through the paywall:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-inspect-every-piece-of-a-widebody-airplane-1504105684


Great article, thanks for sharing.

And thanks to all, interesting. (Forgot I had asked the question, oops)
 
User avatar
7BOEING7
Posts: 2732
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:28 pm

You can't stop, I'm not done talking yet.

dakota123 wrote:
During pre-delivery checkouts, what's a typical squawk sheet look like? Are there ever things that trip into flight safety, or is it typically poor carpet fit and the like?

Was thinking mainly of airliners...

More serious ones? Do tell. Just curious as to how well the factories get them right right out of the box.


The Boeing factories in Renton (727,737,757) & Everett (747,767,777,787) generally get it right 99%+ of the time. I never had a concern flying a out of Renton on a B-1 flight -- if you check a map, it's a short runway with a lake at the end -- never got wet.

Historically electronic issues were related to the black boxes (we used to carry a complete set of spares we could change inflight). With improvements in quality/design these days electronic issues are now due to wiring problems (pushed back pins, etc) and there are a lot fewer of them. False engine/cargo fire warnings get your attention in a hurry, as well as engines just quiting but I can count all the ones I've had in my career on one hand plus a couple. Most flights are uneventful, will generate 3-4 squawk sheets (3 squawks to a sheet), and won't require a re-flight prior to the customer flight. It was fun and entertaining -- the view was good and I got to see the sun everyday which is a plus in Seattle.

If you look at the numbers, the Everett airplanes have historically flown 2-3 flights prior to delivery whereas the 737's out of Renton fly 3-4. Many 747/767/777's have delivered having flown only a B-1 and a C-1.
Some customers are more picky than others, some customers let Boeing accept the airplane for them and just show up for delivery.
 
User avatar
Florianopolis
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:54 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:34 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
The Boeing factories in Renton (727,737,757) & Everett (747,767,777,787) generally get it right 99%+ of the time


Hold on. So you're saying Kansas and South Carolina aren't as good?
 
stratclub
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:38 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:15 pm

Florianopolis wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
The Boeing factories in Renton (727,737,757) & Everett (747,767,777,787) generally get it right 99%+ of the time


Hold on. So you're saying Kansas and South Carolina aren't as good?

Boeing does not have a presence in Wichita anymore. http://www.kansas.com/news/business/avi ... 53168.html Subassembly that Boeing used to make there were off loaded to these guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_AeroSystems who don't deliver completed aircraft.

Boeing SC started building completed aircraft for delivery in 2012 and are still early in the learning curve so comparing them to the Everett and Renton plants is an unfair comparison. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_South_Carolina
 
User avatar
7BOEING7
Posts: 2732
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:41 pm

Florianopolis wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
The Boeing factories in Renton (727,737,757) & Everett (747,767,777,787) generally get it right 99%+ of the time


Hold on. So you're saying Kansas and South Carolina aren't as good?


I retired before SC came online but I would guess they’re just as good as Everett & Renton
 
stratclub
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:38 pm

Re: Typical pre-delivery squawks

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:58 am

I retired from Flight Test in 2016, and the unofficial word about SC is that in the beginning, as a startup, they were having a rough time. Today? IDK, but I would imagine they are getting better. As an aside, It's just amazing how honked up Everett and Renton get when a new model comes down the production line.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kalvado, Okcflyer, Starlionblue, Wacker1000 and 22 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos