acjbbj
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How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:35 pm

There is a YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXqW9TXCExI) where some people run an engine on the ground.

Just wondering, how do I go to Boeing/Airbus or GE/PW/RR etc. to buy just the engine on a plane? (Including cowlings, reversers, casings, etc. and possibly the pylon as well)

Also, how can one set up the engine to be run on the ground? Ground starting unit? Running it on natural gas?
Favourite plane: "L-1011-800 TriStar Next Generation" :mrgreen:
(3-Engine cargo jet approximately the size of a 77F, with three Trent XWB-97. Two engines on the wing, the third in the tail with an S-duct.)
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:31 am

I have no doubt that an engine manufacturer would sell you an engine if you had the means to pay for it.

You can certainly mount it on a stand on the ground. However to actually run it you might run into issues with permits and such.

It's been done... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8bIXeM0RJ8
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:22 am

You can buy a used engine from parts distributors from scrapped planes for around $200K.

Trying to make the thing run on the ground will likely get you investigated by the FBI or just plain laughed at.

And to answer the last question, engines run on kerosene, not natural gas.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:36 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
You can buy a used engine from parts distributors from scrapped planes for around $200K.

Trying to make the thing run on the ground will likely get you investigated by the FBI or just plain laughed at.

And to answer the last question, engines run on kerosene, not natural gas.


I'm guessing they'll run on quite a range of hydrocarbons if you fiddle a bit and accept weird performance and wear. A gas, though? Probably not. Please don't try it at home. ;)
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:00 am

Starlionblue wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
You can buy a used engine from parts distributors from scrapped planes for around $200K.

Trying to make the thing run on the ground will likely get you investigated by the FBI or just plain laughed at.

And to answer the last question, engines run on kerosene, not natural gas.


I'm guessing they'll run on quite a range of hydrocarbons if you fiddle a bit and accept weird performance and wear. A gas, though? Probably not. Please don't try it at home. ;)


A jet engine that runs on natural gas sounds more like a bomb.
 
Conniston
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:12 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
You can buy a used engine from parts distributors from scrapped planes for around $200K.

Trying to make the thing run on the ground will likely get you investigated by the FBI or just plain laughed at.

And to answer the last question, engines run on kerosene, not natural gas.


I'm guessing they'll run on quite a range of hydrocarbons if you fiddle a bit and accept weird performance and wear. A gas, though? Probably not. Please don't try it at home. ;)


A jet engine that runs on natural gas sounds more like a bomb.


Nonsense. Industrial gas turbines such as those used for power generation are most commonly powered by natural gas. Gas turbines can run on just about anything, ranging from kerosene to methane to even biodiesel. The industrial derivatives feature different combustor designs than their aviation brethren, as the dimensions can be optimized without the constraint of needing to fit into a streamlined cowling.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:23 am

Conniston wrote:
Nonsense. Industrial gas turbines such as those used for power generation are most commonly powered by natural gas.


And, I suspect they were designed as such. Modern turbo-fans, and not-so-modern ones for that matter, use liquid jet fuel as a hydraulic source to move all sorts of bits & pieces in the engine. Bleed valves, stator vanes, cooling valves, etc. all use fuel as an actuating means.

You can probably buy an engine from anyone willing to sell it if you have the cash. The best bet is to find an engine on the surplus market and build a mount/pylon assembly.
When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
If you want a safe space, go home. If that's not safe, change your home.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:31 am

fr8mech wrote:
Conniston wrote:
Nonsense. Industrial gas turbines such as those used for power generation are most commonly powered by natural gas.


And, I suspect they were designed as such. Modern turbo-fans, and not-so-modern ones for that matter, use liquid jet fuel as a hydraulic source to move all sorts of bits & pieces in the engine. Bleed valves, stator vanes, cooling valves, etc. all use fuel as an actuating means.

You can probably buy an engine from anyone willing to sell it if you have the cash. The best bet is to find an engine on the surplus market and build a mount/pylon assembly.


Wait, we're encouraging this now? Right on.

I guess I'm on board, if only for the "let's see what happens" element.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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fr8mech
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:41 am

Starlionblue wrote:
Wait, we're encouraging this now? Right on.

I guess I'm on board, if only for the "let's see what happens" element.


Sure, I'm a free market kind of guy. Plenty of folks have done it, as evidenced on the Google machine. I'll leave it up to him to keep himself and others safe.

Of course, if his first step is asking for help here.......

But, as my signature says "Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed."
When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
If you want a safe space, go home. If that's not safe, change your home.
 
acjbbj
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:55 am

I obviously know that keeping others safe is essential...
Favourite plane: "L-1011-800 TriStar Next Generation" :mrgreen:
(3-Engine cargo jet approximately the size of a 77F, with three Trent XWB-97. Two engines on the wing, the third in the tail with an S-duct.)
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:59 am

fr8mech wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
Wait, we're encouraging this now? Right on.

I guess I'm on board, if only for the "let's see what happens" element.


Sure, I'm a free market kind of guy. Plenty of folks have done it, as evidenced on the Google machine. I'll leave it up to him to keep himself and others safe.

Of course, if his first step is asking for help here.......

But, as my signature says "Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed."


And my signature says, "... there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." ;)
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Conniston
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:01 am

fr8mech wrote:
Conniston wrote:
Nonsense. Industrial gas turbines such as those used for power generation are most commonly powered by natural gas.


And, I suspect they were designed as such. Modern turbo-fans, and not-so-modern ones for that matter, use liquid jet fuel as a hydraulic source to move all sorts of bits & pieces in the engine. Bleed valves, stator vanes, cooling valves, etc. all use fuel as an actuating means.

You can probably buy an engine from anyone willing to sell it if you have the cash. The best bet is to find an engine on the surplus market and build a mount/pylon assembly.


Yes, my comment is aimed at the premise that jet engines can only run on kerosene or jet fuel. Some aviation jet engines are approved to run on alternate fuels as well. The PT-6 turboprop for example is allowed to run on AVGAS for a limited amount of hours between overhauls.

If you pursue this jet engine in your backyard folly, don't end up like these guys...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9J91Iq52Bk
 
strfyr51
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:35 am

Starlionblue wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
You can buy a used engine from parts distributors from scrapped planes for around $200K.

Trying to make the thing run on the ground will likely get you investigated by the FBI or just plain laughed at.

And to answer the last question, engines run on kerosene, not natural gas.


I'm guessing they'll run on quite a range of hydrocarbons if you fiddle a bit and accept weird performance and wear. A gas, though? Probably not. Please don't try it at home. ;)

A jet engine will run off of nearly any combustible fuel if you can adjust the specific gravity. In the Navy I had to fill up a P3C with Avgas because the ground fuel tanks had been contaminated with algae (I will NOT say where we were). With every 100 gallons I had to add 1 qt of turbine engine oil Mobil Jet II or Exxon 2380.
The tanker we had to use didn't have a pressure refuling nozzle and we had to fill the airplane over the wing like in a gas station. (it took us the better part if the morning too)
We had to adjust the Specific gravity on every engine because Avgas ran much hotter than JP4 or JP5. But? We got te airplane home where we had to drain the remaining fuel, refill with Jet B (JP-5). and do a penalty High power run lasting 2.5 hours to purge the engine fuel nozzles. We watched the Turbine Inlet Temp. drop pretty rapidly, and the fuel flow decrease as we had to rin the engine at 925 deg c. per the flight manual. I would be shocked if the Navy could even do that with the new P8-A. I'm not sure the CFM-56's would stand that much abuse.
 
rbretas
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:08 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
You can buy a used engine from parts distributors from scrapped planes for around $200K.

Trying to make the thing run on the ground will likely get you investigated by the FBI or just plain laughed at.

And to answer the last question, engines run on kerosene, not natural gas.


I'm guessing they'll run on quite a range of hydrocarbons if you fiddle a bit and accept weird performance and wear. A gas, though? Probably not. Please don't try it at home. ;)


A jet engine that runs on natural gas sounds more like a bomb.


There are plenty of companies that do fuel conversion of gas turbines. Between different types and grades of liquids, gases, and even from liquid to gas and vice versa. Being converted to a natural gas fueled industrial turbine is a common fate for aircraft engines that are not airworthy anymore.
It's possible to convert almost any aircraft engine into an industrial or marine one, it's just not economic viable for the newest high-tech ones.
Saudi Arabia even tested running industrial turbines with crude oil.
 
acjbbj
Topic Author
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:42 am

Unfortunately, there are a number of people like Andre3K who don't know how to NOT be offensive...
Favourite plane: "L-1011-800 TriStar Next Generation" :mrgreen:
(3-Engine cargo jet approximately the size of a 77F, with three Trent XWB-97. Two engines on the wing, the third in the tail with an S-duct.)
 
BravoOne
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:28 pm

Back to the original question. Check out Speed Nrews as they are a good resource for used engines and airframe. I doubt that a used JT9D would cost that much.
 
Chaostheory
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:50 pm

A JT9 or even an RB211 as linked in the video would be too much hassle for most. Best off sticking with something the size of a RR Spey or Tay. You could get them to spool up to a high epr/N1 too unlike the larger engines.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:29 pm

I wonder where they get that little device that lets them control the engine?
 
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tb727
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:30 pm

If you don't live near me I can tell you where to find some CJ-610's.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
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fr8mech
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:36 pm

NYPECO wrote:
I wonder where they get that little device that lets them control the engine?


I suspect they built it.
When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
If you want a safe space, go home. If that's not safe, change your home.
 
acjbbj
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:13 am

And yes, Andre3K is completely aware of the permanent, widespread damage that they have done.

And how did the guys build the engine's starting unit?
Favourite plane: "L-1011-800 TriStar Next Generation" :mrgreen:
(3-Engine cargo jet approximately the size of a 77F, with three Trent XWB-97. Two engines on the wing, the third in the tail with an S-duct.)
 
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fr8mech
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:38 am

acjbbj wrote:
And how did the guys build the engine's starting unit?


It appears they are using an APU out of an aircraft to supply air, along with a commercially available jet start cart.
When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
If you want a safe space, go home. If that's not safe, change your home.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:14 pm

fr8mech wrote:
acjbbj wrote:
And how did the guys build the engine's starting unit?


It appears they are using an APU out of an aircraft to supply air, along with a commercially available jet start cart.


If the OP lives in Kansas he can just mount it to the prevailing wind direction and turn on the ignition. :)
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
dakota123
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:25 pm

fr8mech wrote:
Conniston wrote:
Nonsense. Industrial gas turbines such as those used for power generation are most commonly powered by natural gas.


And, I suspect they were designed as such. Modern turbo-fans, and not-so-modern ones for that matter, use liquid jet fuel as a hydraulic source to move all sorts of bits & pieces in the engine. Bleed valves, stator vanes, cooling valves, etc. all use fuel as an actuating means.



Going back to the JT75/JT4 flight engines routinely operate on natural gas. Fairly trivial to change hydraulically-operated devices using fuel as the working fluid to utilize a stand-alone hydraulic system.

CF6 (up to the -80E2), RB211, Trents, even recently the GE90 are all capable of operating quite nicely on natural gas -- in fact, often better than on liquid fuel because combustion is more complete with the gaseous fuel. In some cases the hydraulic system is done away with altogether and step or linear electrical actuators are used.

Google GG4, LM6000, LM9000, Trent 60 as quick examples -- all mechanical drive (e.g. natural compression station drivers) or power generation.
 
amishfarmer
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:36 pm

Well first you'd probably have better luck sourcing one from a graveyard. Transport from the source to where you want to run it is feasible. You would have to mount securely, VERY securely and away from populations, FOD sources, as well as structures or living thing susceptible to exhaust. You would also have to have a way to start the engine, which can vary depending on the engine, most in my experience use pnuematic starters and approx 25psi to turn the starter. Again that can vary by engine, and you'd have to source some sort of air cart or battery cart depending on how it starts. You would then have to fabricate a system to supply fuel, as well as the throttle, monitor engine parameters, source of electrical power for ignition(again dependent on the engine). Possibly even an electrical source for an engine with computer controlled running--engine type dependent.......... a protected place to operate the engine from in case of failures, as well as some sort of fire suppression.
That should cover most of it. It'd probably just be easier to buy a non airworthy aircraft and just run the engine if that's what you want to do.
 
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Channex757
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:10 am

Having watched the videos of the jet engine guys, I'd say that a complete jet engine for a new enthusiast is going to be a step too far and might even end up as an expensive hole in a wall.

Why not consider going about it properly and consider an APU first? These are small jet engines after all and much more manageable. Get to know it and how it works, then if you like it move on upwards. The APU has the added benefit of having an electric starter built in.

It would make a lot more sense than buying a retired CF6, adding a load of kerosene then waiting for the fire brigade and ambulance to turn up.....
 
Apprentice
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:06 am

“A jet engine that runs on natural gas sounds more like a bomb“.
Hi, almost 35 years ago, soviets did an experiment that got even an space on their neews tv program:
Tu-155. It make a lot of experimental flights.
In fact a Tu-154 B with NK8-2U engines, adapted to burn natural Gas.. Tanks were placed, for this flights, inside px cabine, were seats were removed.. I never ever read about it and why it was stopped.
Rgds
“An AME, with just a Mechanic Role”, as per one of our pilots
"A NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor (a wise man)
“CUBANA” 90 years Flying”
 
Apprentice
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:44 am

Hi: sorry I forget, hydrogene was tested before natural gas:

Quotted “https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155” unquotted

Rgds
“An AME, with just a Mechanic Role”, as per one of our pilots
"A NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor (a wise man)
“CUBANA” 90 years Flying”
 
goosebayguy
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:14 pm

Try this site they sell jet engines.

http://jetenginetrader.co.uk/
 
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litz
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Re: How do I buy just the engine of a plane?

Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:27 pm

The guy with the RR is a turbine enthusiast, owns dozens of turbines/jets of various sizes. Obviously the roller is likely the biggest he has.

He custom built all the control circuitry (from L-1011 schematics), and uses off-the-shelf air-starters to drive it.

It needs two of them to get enough air moving.

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