Why do airlines in the U.S. need to lease more gates than they need just so they have a place to RON their aircraft. An airline will have maybe only a dozen or so flights thoughout the entire day at an airport but they need 5 gates because they need a place to RON for early morning flights to make connections. Why can't they unload passengers and then tug the plane to a hard stand to RON and to make room for the next flight. Do they do this to keep out comeptition so no other airline can get gates?

I think it depends on the airport. There has to be ramp space in order to do it. In know at ALB, Southwest routinely has up to 5 planes on the ground overnight where they only have two gates, but there is ramps space available for them to keep the planes there. For airlines with more types, they could end up having to do a lot of jockying if the arrivals get in in the "wrong" order, both at night and the next morning.

In know that in SYR DL has a gate that they use mostly for RON's but is occasionally used for diversions. UA doesn't have that problem as they use a covered ramp for the 3rd plane they overnight while the other 2 flights use the normal gates. AA mixes up it's flights as far as gate usage to even things out while B6 uses gate 3 for normal ops and gate 1 as an overnight.

Keep in mind airport master lease agreements often run for decades, so conditions and usage needs might have been very different when the gates were acquired.

With gate access being an important competitive advantage walking away from gates not needed today might end up being a short sighted decision long term especialy if it opens door for a competitor.

WeatherPilot wrote:

Why do airlines in the U.S. need to lease more gates than they need just so they have a place to RON their aircraft. An airline will have maybe only a dozen or so flights thoughout the entire day at an airport but they need 5 gates because they need a place to RON for early morning flights to make connections. Why can't they unload passengers and then tug the plane to a hard stand to RON and to make room for the next flight. Do they do this to keep out comeptition so no other airline can get gates?

I guess it depends on how the airport prices gates: What's cheaper, leasing a gate, or the fuel and labor to tug an aircraft back and forth from a stand?

There is certainly also some convenience associated with more space. In about the 2005/2006 timeframe, NW made an effort to equip outstations with large numbers of regional movements with at least one jet bridge with an automatically extendable ramp/bridge piece (to reach over the steps on CRJs) and an elevator for gate-checked bags. This was a passenger convenience and I suspect also reduced labor and worker’s compensation costs, but it also reduced operational flexibility some.

teneriffe77 wrote:

In know that in SYR DL has a gate that they use mostly for RON's but is occasionally used for diversions. UA doesn't have that problem as they use a covered ramp for the 3rd plane they overnight while the other 2 flights use the normal gates. AA mixes up it's flights as far as gate usage to even things out while B6 uses gate 3 for normal ops and gate 1 as an overnight.

SYR is actually what made me make this post and how any future airlines, *cough* WN *cough*, would be able to operate out of SYR considering there aren't really any gates left. There's F9 that's going to be starting service soon and I believe they're either going to be at gate 12 or sharing with G4 at gate 11 since there schedule times don't overlap at all. The North Concourse is completely full with UA and DL. The South Concourse only has gate 12 completely open but only during the summer and fall months as B6's BOS flight can then RON at gate 1 instead since their seasonal FLL that RONs will have been already stopped by May 1st leaving only two B6 aircraft that need to RON at gate 1 and 3.

If it weren't for all the aircraft that RON at every gate then there would be plenty of room for another carrier or two. I just don't see WN making any in-roads at SYR unless the airport authority forces them to play nice.

One thing about all those RON aircraft. They are sitting there when no airline really wants to use the gates for flights. SYR also has extra space. You could easily put two jet ways on both the North and South concourses. They were removed many years ago.

SYR is a prime example of why the non-usage of CUTE at most US airports leads to ridiculously poor gate utilization at many non-hub airports, and a perceived lack of gates, when in fact most of them sit empty for most of the day.

Dominion301 wrote:

SYR is a prime example of why the non-usage of CUTE at most US airports leads to ridiculously poor gate utilization at many non-hub airports, and a perceived lack of gates, when in fact most of them sit empty for most of the day.

CUTE wouldn’t lead to any better utilization. It might or might not lead to more opportunities for new entrants.

WeatherPilot wrote:

Why do airlines in the U.S. need to lease more gates than they need just so they have a place to RON their aircraft. An airline will have maybe only a dozen or so flights thoughout the entire day at an airport but they need 5 gates because they need a place to RON for early morning flights to make connections. Why can't they unload passengers and then tug the plane to a hard stand to RON and to make room for the next flight. Do they do this to keep out comeptition so no other airline can get gates?

They usually do not lease a gate just for a RON. A huge consideration is schedule. While utilizing a gate fully all day is an attractive idea for an airline, they also need to fly when passengers actually want to go. An airline that runs 12 flights a day from an outstation might want 3 or even 4 gates because they want to have 3 or 4 departures near the same time to various hubs, typically in the morning around 6 or 7 am. Two gates means some flights go later and miss the connecting bank.

As i've said before I've seen DL use there RON gate for diversion so they do get some daytime use out of it. I'm also surprised that UA doesn't use the jetway at gate 21 for gate 22 as the weather conditions here can be very bad a night during parts of the year like the winter and they are the only airline that doesn't use jetways for all of their flights besides ACEX. BTW F9 will not be overnighting any planes so they and B6 could share a gate. Also as far as I know gate 15 is technically available for any new entrant

WeatherPilot wrote:

Why do airlines in the U.S. need to lease more gates than they need just so they have a place to RON their aircraft. An airline will have maybe only a dozen or so flights thoughout the entire day at an airport but they need 5 gates because they need a place to RON for early morning flights to make connections. Why can't they unload passengers and then tug the plane to a hard stand to RON and to make room for the next flight. Do they do this to keep out comeptition so no other airline can get gates?

What you’re describing is the exception rather than the rule at most large airports I know of. Very common to see RONs parked on aprons behind gates or remotely. Is there a specific airport you have in mind?

Cubsrule wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

SYR is a prime example of why the non-usage of CUTE at most US airports leads to ridiculously poor gate utilization at many non-hub airports, and a perceived lack of gates, when in fact most of them sit empty for most of the day.

CUTE wouldn’t lead to any better utilization. It might or might not lead to more opportunities for new entrants.

Unless multiple airlines are running virtually identical scheduled arrival/departure times from an outstation, how could it not? Multiple airlines using the same gate vs. 1?

Dominion301 wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

SYR is a prime example of why the non-usage of CUTE at most US airports leads to ridiculously poor gate utilization at many non-hub airports, and a perceived lack of gates, when in fact most of them sit empty for most of the day.

CUTE wouldn’t lead to any better utilization. It might or might not lead to more opportunities for new entrants.

Unless multiple airlines are running virtually identical scheduled arrival/departure times from an outstation, how could it not? Multiple airlines using the same gate vs. 1?

Well, go ahead and install CUTE at the gates--is there any change in utilization on Day 1?

Are there any instances of airlines wanting to serve SYR that couldn't be accommodated?

CUTE on gates will never solve problems at peak arrival and departure times (early morning and evening departure times at spokes)--which is more often than not what times new entrants want to serve.

jetero wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

CUTE wouldn’t lead to any better utilization. It might or might not lead to more opportunities for new entrants.

Unless multiple airlines are running virtually identical scheduled arrival/departure times from an outstation, how could it not? Multiple airlines using the same gate vs. 1?

Well, go ahead and install CUTE at the gates--is there any change in utilization on Day 1?

Are there any instances of airlines wanting to serve SYR that couldn't be accommodated?

CUTE on gates will never solve problems at peak arrival and departure times (early morning and evening departure times at spokes)--which is more often than not what times new entrants want to serve.

What he said. Many medium and large US airports are tight on gate space. But amazingly (/sarcasm), in the vast majority of those instances they find gates for new entrants, and most airports would rather build gates than remain in a constrained situation.

One other consideration is labor contracts. At some (most) carriers, ferrying A/C to/from gate require mechanics perform this operation. Many smaller stations do not have enough work to justify staffing mechanics just to have someone around to move planes. So the "easy" solution is to leave the planes at the gate and as a side benefit, your competitors can't use it.

CUTE seems to work just fine for MIA, though they’re short on handstands and aircraft that will be on the ground all day/night are sometimes towed to unused gates in the domestic-only concourse to free up international widebody gates.