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AirKevin
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210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 2:00 pm

Whilst I was at work yesterday, I was listening to LiveATC, and shortly after FedEx 1483 landed at JFK, they asked the tower for the phone number to approach control since the approach controller had them flying at 210 knots all the way to the outer marker. Eventually, when I was able to go back through the archives, I noticed that when the flight was on final, the pilots were telling the controller they needed to slow down, but the controller insisted that they fly at 210 or greater. The pilots responded by telling the controller they wouldn't be stable at 210 or greater and needed to slow to 170 knots. The controller eventually told them to slow to 160 and contact the tower, but gave them an attitude in the process. When the pilots contacted the tower, the tower controller instructed them to slow to final approach speed, to which they told him they were trying. I was just wondering if it was normal for them to be flying that fast that close to the runway. Prior to this particular flight stating the reason why they were asking for the phone number, I had noticed that just about every flight that checked in with the tower was being told that they had a 70-knot overtake on the traffic ahead.
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BravoOne
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 3:06 pm

As usuall, we need more info like weather, and aircraft type?
 
FlyHossD
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 3:10 pm

As a pilot, at some point - depending on your experience and the airplane's capabilities - you need to tell the controller "Unable" when the controller's instructions will compromise the completion of the approach. The controller could conceivably cancel the approach clearance, though (thus, necessitating a go-around or missed approach).
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 4:11 pm

BravoOne wrote:
As usuall, we need more info like weather, and aircraft type?

Sorry. The aircraft in question was a Boeing 767-300 landing runway 22L at JFK. As for weather, the METAR I pulled up as follows. The flight landed more or less right at the halfway point between the two times.

KJFK 101051Z 14007KT 2SM BR BKN004 12/12 A3004 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 5 SLP171 T01220122 $
KJFK 100951Z 14004KT 2SM BR OVC004 12/12 A3004 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 4 SLP173 T01170117 $
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 4:39 pm

Well that would be a little dicey perhaps, especially if you were fairly new to the airplane. As the previous poster said, sometime you just need to say sorry but I won't do that. It;s certainly within the capabilities of the airplane, but just because it cab do it, doesn't you have to do it, all things considered.
 
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 6:07 pm

It's possible, but a bit difficult in the 767. There's only 5.4 NM from ZALPO outer marker to to the runway threshold, and ZALPO is only 1800 ft above ground. With that weather they will need to be at target speed and fully configured with engines spooled up and checklists complete by 1000ft AGL at the latest. So they will only have about 45 seconds to go from flaps 5 to flaps 25 and lose about 70 knots of airspeed while descending. Really you want more like 90 or 120 seconds to do this. With that weather they might even be trying an autoland to be safe, but probably not, as the autopilot would not be able to handle such a situation as well as the pilots. To pull it off you'll probably need gear out and full speed brakes the second you hit the marker, and a tailwind at altitude could make it even worse.

Really in the 767 you want to be at about 180 and flaps 5 prior to localizer intercept (10 miles out & about 3000 AGL), gear down/flaps 20 slow to 160 at 7-8 mile final, and flaps 25 or 30 + final approach speed at 5 mile final. If you get much more aggressive than that or approach control keeps you too high you will need to lower gear early or use speedbrakes. The 767 does not like to slow down and go down.

Maybe in better weather it would be easier, because in visual conditions some operators grant you until 500 ft AGL to be full stabilized with engines spooled up.
 
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tb727
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 7:03 pm

Sounds like the guy behind me will have a problem then because I won't do 210 to the marker. Just have to say unable or put me (or him) somewhere to get your spacing. Where I am at they have been hammering the 1000' stable with lots of FOQA calls so I've been very mindful of it as of late since they changed some verbiage on it.
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KingOrGod
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 7:25 pm

AirKevin wrote:
The pilots responded by telling the controller they wouldn't be stable at 210 or greater and needed to slow to 170 knots.


Depends on the crew sometimes, I once had a B763 cross a 10nm final still with 350IAS. When they want to they can.
 
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tb727
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 7:33 pm

KingOrGod wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
The pilots responded by telling the controller they wouldn't be stable at 210 or greater and needed to slow to 170 knots.


Depends on the crew sometimes, I once had a B763 cross a 10nm final still with 350IAS. When they want to they can.


350 Indicated?
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KingOrGod
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 7:40 pm

tb727 wrote:

Depends on the crew sometimes, I once had a B763 cross a 10nm final still with 350IAS. When they want to they can.


350 Indicated?[/quote]

Yep - 350IAS crossing the then waypoint GIRBA @ OMAA. I bet it didn't meet stabilised criteria, but landed nevertheless...
 
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AirKevin
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 9:21 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
The controller could conceivably cancel the approach clearance, though (thus, necessitating a go-around or missed approach).

I'm sure the controller could, but if that happened, I'm wondering what would have happened if the controller had set the flight up for that exact same scenario again. Surely they can only do that so many times before fuel becomes an issue.
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 9:45 pm

tb727 wrote:
Sounds like the guy behind me will have a problem then because I won't do 210 to the marker. Just have to say unable or put me (or him) somewhere to get your spacing. Where I am at they have been hammering the 1000' stable with lots of FOQA calls so I've been very mindful of it as of late since they changed some verbiage on it.


Depends, is it go home leg or no? In any case, you eventually have to learn what the airplane is fully capable of. My current airplane, you can do 250 KIAS to the marker (provided its at least say 1500AGL), but it's not a comfortable approach for those in the back.
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tb727
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Fri May 11, 2018 10:59 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
tb727 wrote:
Sounds like the guy behind me will have a problem then because I won't do 210 to the marker. Just have to say unable or put me (or him) somewhere to get your spacing. Where I am at they have been hammering the 1000' stable with lots of FOQA calls so I've been very mindful of it as of late since they changed some verbiage on it.


Depends, is it go home leg or no? In any case, you eventually have to learn what the airplane is fully capable of. My current airplane, you can do 250 KIAS to the marker (provided its at least say 1500AGL), but it's not a comfortable approach for those in the back.


I don't want to make the people in the back uncomfortable regardless of if it's go home leg or not! I'm just going to wait on the stupid bus to the parking lot anyways.
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zeke
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sat May 12, 2018 8:52 am

AirKevin wrote:
Whilst I was at work yesterday, I was listening to LiveATC, and shortly after FedEx 1483 landed at JFK, they asked the tower for the phone number to approach control since the approach controller had them flying at 210 knots all the way to the outer marker. Eventually, when I was able to go back through the archives, I noticed that when the flight was on final, the pilots were telling the controller they needed to slow down, but the controller insisted that they fly at 210 or greater. The pilots responded by telling the controller they wouldn't be stable at 210 or greater and needed to slow to 170 knots. The controller eventually told them to slow to 160 and contact the tower, but gave them an attitude in the process. When the pilots contacted the tower, the tower controller instructed them to slow to final approach speed, to which they told him they were trying. I was just wondering if it was normal for them to be flying that fast that close to the runway. Prior to this particular flight stating the reason why they were asking for the phone number, I had noticed that just about every flight that checked in with the tower was being told that they had a 70-knot overtake on the traffic ahead.


Sounds odd normally we would do a ground speed of

180-7nm
170-6nm
160-5nm
150-4nm
Final speed -3nm

In a wide body while decelerating on descent, if you have strong headwind the indicated can be higher, tailwind lower. Also depends if it’s sea level or higher.

210 at 5.4 is not safe unless you have s really strong headwind and then you would be thinking of a shear layer. 350 to 10 as stated elsewhere in this thread is crazy. Sure I would fly 300+ if I’m on fire with a confirmed emergency. But that is nuts with a serviceable aircraft on a normal day.

The phone number would be to talk to the supervisor, I have done that a few times over the years. They don’t have the big aeroplane operating picture, and I don’t have the big traffic control picture. Sometimes we need to educate each other.
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sat May 12, 2018 11:23 am

It’s simply not a reasonable request by ATC. Poor planning on their part should not require dangerous or non standard on the part of the pilots
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AirKevin
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sat May 12, 2018 2:32 pm

zeke wrote:
The phone number would be to talk to the supervisor, I have done that a few times over the years. They don’t have the big aeroplane operating picture, and I don’t have the big traffic control picture. Sometimes we need to educate each other.

Yeah, that much I knew. I just thought it was a little unusual that they were being told to fly that fast up to the outer marker. Having listened to parts of the approach audio, it seemed like the controller was having everybody do 210 up to the outer marker, with the result that once those planes contacted the tower, the tower was telling everybody they needed to slow down because there was a 70-knot overtake between them and the flight ahead. Here's the audio clip of FedEx 1483 telling the controller they needed to slow down, starting at 25:53. You can hear the controller giving them an attitude when they asked for 170.

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kjfk/ ... -1000Z.mp3
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IAHFLYR
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sat May 12, 2018 6:38 pm

That is an insane speed to assign to any jet arrival, maybe a turbo-prop, but even then it is not the norm. Had I ever assigned a speed above about 180 KIAS when working the finals I would have expected an "UNABLE" in about every instance. Sounds like the controller needs a few jumpseat trips in jets.
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tb727
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sat May 12, 2018 7:33 pm

IAHFLYR wrote:
That is an insane speed to assign to any jet arrival, maybe a turbo-prop, but even then it is not the norm. Had I ever assigned a speed above about 180 KIAS when working the finals I would have expected an "UNABLE" in about every instance. Sounds like the controller needs a few jumpseat trips in jets.


I wish they still did that. I also wish I could go to an enroute facility and sit and watch for a while. I've done few towers and tracons and I love seeing the other side of everything. I think that it helps everyone do a better job because you understand it more.
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IAHFLYR
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sun May 13, 2018 1:09 pm

tb727 wrote:
I wish they still did that. I also wish I could go to an enroute facility and sit and watch for a while. I've done few towers and tracons and I love seeing the other side of everything. I think that it helps everyone do a better job because you understand it more.


Back in the later part of 2011 the FAA instituted a program similar to the old program that was terminated after September 11th, called Flight Deck Training Program (FDTP) to allow controllers take jumpseat rides again, but the red tap that is required to go through probably makes it something most controllers simply do not want to do. Here is a link to the order latest version of the order:

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... 20.29C.pdf

I did take part in the FDTP in late October 2011, doing an IAH-MIA-IAH turn on a B738 as it was my buddy's last trip as a B735/7/8/9 Captain before he moved over to the B772 so why not take it with him. It was fun to be back on the flight deck again even with all the hurdles that had to be met.

It's still the best seat in the plane no matter what they offer in First Class! :bigthumbsup:

Anyway, you should be able to get into an enroute facility if you are a pilot of any level. Just find the facility and talk to the Training Department folks to find out how to make it happen.
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trnswrld
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sun May 13, 2018 2:29 pm

tb727 wrote:
I wish they still did that. I also wish I could go to an enroute facility and sit and watch for a while. I've done few towers and tracons and I love seeing the other side of everything. I think that it helps everyone do a better job because you understand it more.


They do still do it. I have famed a couple times within the last few years.

You can also take a tour of an enroute facility. Just call them and set it up.
 
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tb727
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sun May 13, 2018 3:03 pm

IAHFLYR wrote:
Anyway, you should be able to get into an enroute facility if you are a pilot of any level. Just find the facility and talk to the Training Department folks to find out how to make it happen.
trnswrld wrote:
tb727 wrote:
I wish they still did that. I also wish I could go to an enroute facility and sit and watch for a while. I've done few towers and tracons and I love seeing the other side of everything. I think that it helps everyone do a better job because you understand it more.


They do still do it. I have famed a couple times within the last few years.

You can also take a tour of an enroute facility. Just call them and set it up.


I do have a standing invite to ZOB with my aunts neighbor who retired from there a few years back. I need to take him up on it.

And if I had one of you up front I would love it, I would bend your ear the whole time probably!
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trnswrld
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sun May 13, 2018 4:47 pm

tb727 wrote:
IAHFLYR wrote:
Anyway, you should be able to get into an enroute facility if you are a pilot of any level. Just find the facility and talk to the Training Department folks to find out how to make it happen.
trnswrld wrote:
tb727 wrote:
I wish they still did that. I also wish I could go to an enroute facility and sit and watch for a while. I've done few towers and tracons and I love seeing the other side of everything. I think that it helps everyone do a better job because you understand it more.


They do still do it. I have famed a couple times within the last few years.

You can also take a tour of an enroute facility. Just call them and set it up.


I do have a standing invite to ZOB with my aunts neighbor who retired from there a few years back. I need to take him up on it.

And if I had one of you up front I would love it, I would bend your ear the whole time probably!


Yeah when I did my fam trips that’s exactly what happened. We both had all sorts of questions. It was a good time and I really enjoyed it.
 
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Mon May 14, 2018 1:59 pm

trnswrld wrote:
Yeah when I did my fam trips that’s exactly what happened. We both had all sorts of questions. It was a good time and I really enjoyed it.


Great that you've taken advantage of the FDTP. Sure wish others would do so as well and that more pilots would visit their local ATC faculties to sit and talk with the controllers as it sure helps them better understand why things are done the way they are as well as helps the controllers understand why a pilot cannot make the airplane do at times what the controllers thinks it can.
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AirKevin
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Mon May 14, 2018 3:39 pm

I'd certainly like to visit an air traffic control facility if I ever get the option to do so. Unfortunately, as I don't do any real-world flying, I'm not sure how likely that is to happen.

In any event, yesterday, I was listening to LiveATC, and given the weather conditions, there were a lot of planes that, upon contacting the tower, immediately had their approach clearances cancelled because they were too close to the plane in front of them, which makes me wonder what the approach controller was even doing. I could understand maybe the occasional one having to execute a missed approach, but when I hear three or four in the span of 12 minutes, I have to wonder.
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KingOrGod
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Mon May 14, 2018 6:24 pm

AirKevin wrote:
which makes me wonder what the approach controller was even doing


Or the pilots. If they ignore speed instructions, which happens every day, then that can be a factor too...
 
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AirKevin
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Mon May 14, 2018 7:12 pm

I suppose that's always a possibility, but that many pilots back to back?
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RetiredNWA
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Mon May 14, 2018 8:52 pm

210kts 'til the marker isn't unheard of; neither are jack*ss controllers at JFK.

Slowing to approach speed (Vref + additives, if req'd) depends much on the winds (which, as stated above were relatively calm) the weight of the airplane and it's configuration AT 210kts.

The ability of the pilots to slow the airplane to an appropriate speed for the approach and landing also depends on FedEx cockpit culture. There could be standard maneuvers and configurations that would present a limiting factor to the crew. For example, CAN you EXTEND the speedbrakes when the landing gear is DOWN? At some companies, you can - at some companies, you cannot. Were they planning on conducting a Flaps 25 or Flaps 30 landing? Does the company REQUIRE a Flaps 30 landing? If so, 210kts to VRef in such a short lateral distance would be difficult to achieve. Is there a specific company policy requiring specific configurations over the marker? What is the FedEx policy for Approach Stabilization?? Many variables here are missing in order to formulate an exact answer for you.
 
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Mon May 14, 2018 9:23 pm

RetiredNWA wrote:
210kts 'til the marker isn't unheard of; neither are jack*ss controllers at JFK.

Many variables here are missing in order to formulate an exact answer for you.


Hey now, no need to select a specific facility with that comment.....there are plenty on both sides of the mic! :eek:

In my ole retired mind, best way to solve all the "many variables" would be to have NOT issued a speed that fast, period.
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N766UA
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sat May 19, 2018 6:50 pm

Some controllers simply don’t know what is or isn’t reasonable. I once asked a controller pal of mine “hey, what’s that?” pointing to a 737. “I dunno, a jet?” He and many, many other controllers don’t even care to know what the things look like, let alone their full capabilities.

Controllers get used to what airplanes *can’t* do pretty quickly (like a CRJ2 isn’t going to do 3000FPM in the flight levels,) but they’re sometimes a little ignorant to what they *can* do. Gotta just say “unable” and put the ball back in his court. Attitude is just SOP for anything in New York.
 
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sat May 19, 2018 10:10 pm

N766UA wrote:
Some controllers simply don’t know what is or isn’t reasonable. I once asked a controller pal of mine “hey, what’s that?” pointing to a 737. “I dunno, a jet?” He and many, many other controllers don’t even care to know what the things look like, let alone their full capabilities.

Controllers get used to what airplanes *can’t* do pretty quickly (like a CRJ2 isn’t going to do 3000FPM in the flight levels,) but they’re sometimes a little ignorant to what they *can* do. Gotta just say “unable” and put the ball back in his court. Attitude is just SOP for anything in New York.


Sadly what you write is true, and to be fair, we don't get recurrency training and/or much in the way of accurate information as to what an aircraft is capable of. Even minimum clean on the same frame can be different depending on actual weight. A lot of the time it's broad spectrum "junk" info saying the aircraft is capable of anywhere between 125 and 340 IAS and can fly up to F390. Not very helpful really. It helps when you say "unable" instead of just not flying 170 to 5, for instance. I know where I work that a lot of crews just read back 180/5 (which is too fast IMO) and fly around 160/5 instead.

What makes matters worse is the folk that "are not that into" aviation. It is "just a jet" to them and I think it hinders their on-screen performance.

In a similar vein, it's the same as pilots that think they can control. Also, hinders our performance.

Fortunately, I have held both licenses, and although I only flew light types, I have been on many many an airline LOFT session and/or FAM flights and like to think it has broadened my horizons (especially in the energy management and capabilities areas) as a result.

PS in my experience a CRJ2 will hardly ever achieve in excess of 3k fpm unless under 10k LOL. Was the 2nd slowest dog I ever had to F410. Even a B721 outclimbed it to F330 but at least the B721 was fast at the same time hehehe
 
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sun May 20, 2018 1:55 pm

KingOrGod wrote:
N766UA wrote:
Some controllers simply don’t know what is or isn’t reasonable. I once asked a controller pal of mine “hey, what’s that?” pointing to a 737. “I dunno, a jet?” He and many, many other controllers don’t even care to know what the things look like, let alone their full capabilities.

Controllers get used to what airplanes *can’t* do pretty quickly (like a CRJ2 isn’t going to do 3000FPM in the flight levels,) but they’re sometimes a little ignorant to what they *can* do. Gotta just say “unable” and put the ball back in his court. Attitude is just SOP for anything in New York.


Sadly what you write is true, and to be fair, we don't get recurrency training and/or much in the way of accurate information as to what an aircraft is capable of. Even minimum clean on the same frame can be different depending on actual weight. A lot of the time it's broad spectrum "junk" info saying the aircraft is capable of anywhere between 125 and 340 IAS and can fly up to F390. Not very helpful really. It helps when you say "unable" instead of just not flying 170 to 5, for instance. I know where I work that a lot of crews just read back 180/5 (which is too fast IMO) and fly around 160/5 instead.

What makes matters worse is the folk that "are not that into" aviation. It is "just a jet" to them and I think it hinders their on-screen performance.

In a similar vein, it's the same as pilots that think they can control. Also, hinders our performance.

Fortunately, I have held both licenses, and although I only flew light types, I have been on many many an airline LOFT session and/or FAM flights and like to think it has broadened my horizons (especially in the energy management and capabilities areas) as a result.

PS in my experience a CRJ2 will hardly ever achieve in excess of 3k fpm unless under 10k LOL. Was the 2nd slowest dog I ever had to F410. Even a B721 outclimbed it to F330 but at least the B721 was fast at the same time hehehe


Yeah above 20 the 200 will get around 4 to 700fpm. Above 30 it’s more like 300. I promise we’re trying.

When I started in a certain job back in the day, pretty much the only performance training we got was a sheet of paper with climb rates. I believe it listed the F-18 as “4000FPM.” Not the best.
 
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Sun May 20, 2018 8:26 pm

N766UA wrote:
I promise we’re trying.


I know you are :)
 
IAHFLYR
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Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Mon May 21, 2018 1:49 pm

KingOrGod wrote:
N766UA wrote:
Some controllers simply don’t know what is or isn’t reasonable. I once asked a controller pal of mine “hey, what’s that?” pointing to a 737. “I dunno, a jet?” He and many, many other controllers don’t even care to know what the things look like, let alone their full capabilities.

Controllers get used to what airplanes *can’t* do pretty quickly (like a CRJ2 isn’t going to do 3000FPM in the flight levels,) but they’re sometimes a little ignorant to what they *can* do. Gotta just say “unable” and put the ball back in his court. Attitude is just SOP for anything in New York.


Sadly what you write is true, and to be fair, we don't get recurrency training and/or much in the way of accurate information as to what an aircraft is capable of. Even minimum clean on the same frame can be different depending on actual weight. A lot of the time it's broad spectrum "junk" info saying the aircraft is capable of anywhere between 125 and 340 IAS and can fly up to F390. Not very helpful really. It helps when you say "unable" instead of just not flying 170 to 5, for instance. I know where I work that a lot of crews just read back 180/5 (which is too fast IMO) and fly around 160/5 instead.

What makes matters worse is the folk that "are not that into" aviation. It is "just a jet" to them and I think it hinders their on-screen performance.

In a similar vein, it's the same as pilots that think they can control. Also, hinders our performance.

Fortunately, I have held both licenses, and although I only flew light types, I have been on many many an airline LOFT session and/or FAM flights and like to think it has broadened my horizons (especially in the energy management and capabilities areas) as a result.

PS in my experience a CRJ2 will hardly ever achieve in excess of 3k fpm unless under 10k LOL. Was the 2nd slowest dog I ever had to F410. Even a B721 outclimbed it to F330 but at least the B721 was fast at the same time hehehe


You are spot on with that post particularly the "are not into" aviation". For some controllers it is just a job period which is very very sad. I remember one day when there were plenty of MD80 series flying around IAH and I asked one of them "what's your clean maneuvering speed" as I needed to slow them yet didn't want to have them get dirty. The guy sitting next to me asked my why do you care, just assign the speed and be done with it. I explained to him why and he just shrugged his shoulders and said, "who gives a XXXX". He didn't care in the least about his own performance and it really showed.

Speaking of slow climbers...a Houston Center controller asked an E145 one day....."if you had a rate of climb what would it be?". LOL
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ZBBYLW
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Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Mon May 21, 2018 7:20 pm

Completely depends on the plane. On the Airbus for instance in an A319 at light weights with a head wind you can slow down very quickly (only issue is Vapp is lower) but in an A321 close to MLW with minimal wind it takes longer to slow down, though luckily Vapp is higher often 140-150 so you don't need to bleed as much speed.

In YYZ it's not uncommon to have 200 until the GS. 170 to the faf is normal but if there are headwinds that day they will say something else. Most times I feel comfortable with the restriction (it helps our SOP has us configured at 1000, stable at 500 VMC or IMC) so we have a bit longer to get the speed and thrust stabilized.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1680
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Mon May 21, 2018 7:42 pm

IAHFLYR wrote:
Speaking of slow climbers...a Houston Center controller asked an E145 one day....."if you had a rate of climb what would it be?". LOL


That reminds me of a former first officer who had flown CR2s (IIRC) and he referred to them as "cholesterol of the airways."
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 18591
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: 210 Knots To Outer Marker

Mon May 21, 2018 10:04 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
IAHFLYR wrote:
Speaking of slow climbers...a Houston Center controller asked an E145 one day....."if you had a rate of climb what would it be?". LOL


That reminds me of a former first officer who had flown CR2s (IIRC) and he referred to them as "cholesterol of the airways."


After a controller groked that a 350 at heavy weights isn't exactly a rocket above FL250, he asked us to "climb to FLxxx, and maintain, ummm, a climb rate..." She can climb high but it takes a while at the end. :D
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

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