Rolls-Royce partners with Airbus for UltraFan flight tests

ap305 · Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:26 am

The testbed will be a 747 but the nacelle and pylon will be from Airbus.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... -f-448024/

The partnership will enable Airbus to "fully integrate the overall powerplant system – composed of engine, pylon and nacelle – onto future long-range aircraft products" and to facilitate "scalability for future short-range aircraft", the airframer says.

parapente · Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:00 am

Did we already know that a flying test bed had been part of the RR plan?As I recall there was no plan to fly he various advance parts together (I appreciate this is 'ultra').
Again odd that -so far- the only public proposal RR has made -according to the article is one for the Boeing 797.Airbus is hardly likely to want to help that.....
Wonder what they want to use it for?

keesje · Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:53 pm

The engine's power rating should tell a lot.

mxaxai · Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:47 am

parapente wrote:
Did we already know that a flying test bed had been part of the RR plan?As I recall there was no plan to fly he various advance parts together (I appreciate this is 'ultra').
Again odd that -so far- the only public proposal RR has made -according to the article is one for the Boeing 797.Airbus is hardly likely to want to help that.....
Wonder what they want to use it for?

I guess they're hoping to use it for something, even if they don't yet know what. But if they know the thrust range they want, they can wait for some time and see how the engine and market develop before commiting to any new project. It's nice to have a new engine waiting for you, just in case.

parapente · Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:52 pm

Well to date the 'bits' they are testing (happy to be corrected) are
1.the carbo-titanium fan and caring ,which has been test flown I believe.That part used a copy of the Trent 1000 fan.Whether the blades were identical I do not know.
2.The planetary gear mechanism built and beingvtested I. Germany.I believe they said it was good up to circa 70klbs thrust.As I recall.
3The new central core.That is being tested using both T1000 and XWB parts (I think the 'backend ' being the XWB part.So the thrust range has to be somewhat similar to these engines.

But you can read anything into this -at all.This is totally normal procedure.Using existing parts obviously reduces costs and timings.But far more than this they are 'known peramiters' so they can gauge any improvements with the new bits with greater certainty/accuracy.

Egerton · Sun May 06, 2018 10:11 am

The propulsive efficiency is better with a larger and slower rotating fan with the same core. Separately the hotter the core, the more energy it can extract from the fuel. These are both desirable objectives, but have to be considered along with other issues including installation in the aeroplane, and its design objectives.

The UltraFan concept will have a new set of gears to enable the larger slower fan, whilst allowing the core to rotate faster and thus be shorter, smaller and lighter. If you presume that the UltraFan has been created to be ultimately fitted to a design which is already in production, then I suspect it may be an incorrect assumption. We have all seen the gull wing of the A380, long legged landing gears which will accommodate a large fan or propeller, and the rear mounted huge noisy fast rotating propellers of open rotor concepts.

There seems to me to be the possibility that the optimum propulsive efficiency of a super large slow rotating enclosed fan to avoid un-contained failures might be an avenue to consider for the distant future. Along with the appropriate amount of 'hotter'. Yes, it may need a new design of aeroplane.

So it maybe that the design of a super large fan with its super large containment and/or or its installations on an airframe becomes difficult. So a solution maybe to build 4 engine aeroplanes with each engine having half thrust of the equivalent twin. This may be a way of balancing the required scale of fan needed for a super high by-pass with compatibility on the aeroplane. In the extreme, 6 engines may become the rage.

crimsonchin · Sun May 06, 2018 11:34 am

parapente wrote:
Did we already know that a flying test bed had been part of the RR plan?As I recall there was no plan to fly he various advance parts together (I appreciate this is 'ultra').
Again odd that -so far- the only public proposal RR has made -according to the article is one for the Boeing 797.Airbus is hardly likely to want to help that.....
Wonder what they want to use it for?

Their own upcoming plane perhaps? Or do we believe just because Airbus isn't spending every waking day talking about their snakeoil plane that they don't have anything planned.

kurtverbose · Sun May 06, 2018 4:31 pm

Egerton wrote:
So it maybe that the design of a super large fan with its super large containment and/or or its installations on an airframe becomes difficult. So a solution maybe to build 4 engine aeroplanes with each engine having half thrust of the equivalent twin. This may be a way of balancing the required scale of fan needed for a super high by-pass with compatibility on the aeroplane. In the extreme, 6 engines may become the rage.

It could also be that the gearbox could have two output shafts - for one core, two fans. Although getting this together would be difficult. Another alternative is the core turbine generates electricity that powers remote fans.

Anyway, ultrafan has a bypass ration of approx 15:1, so I don't think we've reached the point where a different plane architecture is needed yet.

LH707330 · Mon May 07, 2018 5:29 pm

They're going back to the Superfan idea on the A340, the A330neo was just a smoke screen and to test the new winglets.

Egerton · Tue May 08, 2018 10:10 am

Yes, LH707330. From my memory and from Wiki, Superfan was in the mid 1980's IAE's version of the UltraFan. P&W and RR were way ahead of the game but with the technology of those days it was an impossible dream. Thank goodness it was cancelled, it would have broken P&W, RR and Airbus.

kurtvrebose, thanks, we are both looking ahead. With the remarkable pace of change seen in advanced engineering, the future may be closer than we curently think.

TWA772LR · Tue May 08, 2018 4:17 pm

Does that mean we will have a Boebus A747? :biggrin:

Rolls-Royce partners with Airbus for UltraFan flight tests

Rolls-Royce partners with Airbus for UltraFan flight tests

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