I travel fairly often by air within the United States and it seems like on every flight I take there is at least one uniformed pilot on every flight in the passenger cabin that is deadheading somewhere. In addition I imagine there are often pilots who are also traveling out of uniform. When pilots are deadheading is it a practice for them at the time of check to "sign in" in as commercial pilots in the highly unlikely event that their assistance is needed in the cockpit during an emergency?

Thanks for your responses.

There is a difference between a deadheading pilot and a commuting pilot. A passenger cannot tell the difference between the two unless you ask. So all these pilots you see flying around on your flights, you don't know whether they are deadheading or commuting.

the difference is that a deadheading pilot is on-duty and being paid to ride as a passenger on company business, where as a commuting pilot is not on duty and is not being paid.

However a commuting pilot can be either jumpseating or non-revving.
Jumpseating pilots by courtesy are required to check in with the captain and request permission to ride irregardless of where they sit - on the flight deck or in the cabin.
Non-revving pilots don't have to check in with anyone unless he is physically accommodated in the flight deck.

Deadheading pilots are not required to let the captain know they are on board (but most out of professional courtesy will check in). They may not be qualified to operate the aircraft they are riding.

Exactly like Woodreau said, there is non-revving (commuting, likely because you don't live at your base) and deadheading (part of your duty plan, also called proceeding or positioning). With my airlines check-in system all ID-traveling passengers (so both deadheading and non-revving) are identified as such on the PIL (passenger information list), so the cabin crew already knows who has some kind of airline affiliation. Also by the kind of status used for your ID-ticket it is usually visible who is deadhead-crew, because they have the highest possible booking status. Also most people will at least say something like "Hi, I'm Thomas, I'm deadheading." to the Purser. Some will also say hi to the flight-deck. Depending on airline and airport procedures a deadhead crew-member may also arrive at the airplane earlier than the passengers. At our main hub I for example can (and 99% of the time do) use the flight crew security check and then take a crew-bus to the airplane. I arrive before the passengers do and will have a short chat with the whole crew.
A non-revving crew-member will usually board with the passengers. At some airlines I know it is appreciated if you introduce yourself to the crew; at others it's frowned upon, because they have so many non-revving crews on some flights that it would really back-up the boarding process.
But to be honest I never really thought about it as a "just in case something happens to the active guys in the flight-deck" kind of introduction, but rather simply as being nice and polite. If this unlikely case happens and the remaining flight-deck crew-member wants help (which he/she usually will) they can call for it then and it only takes me seconds to walk up to the Purser, show my airline ID and go help.
But still, chances are that I don't have any experience on the type. Of course there is basic stuff I can do, like run radio calls, set flaps and gear upon order and check that "blue is up, brown is down".

Cheers,
T1a

Woodreau wrote:

Deadheading pilots are not required to let the captain know they are on board (but most out of professional courtesy will check in). They may not be qualified to operate the aircraft they are riding.

And if you are on a certain carrier whose pilots won't even make eye-contact with your kind, say in ATL, then you just turn right and go to your seat and let them be lol.

If a pilot suffers a serious, debilitating medical episode in-flight (stroke, seizure, etc), aside from immediately landing, what is the procedure?
I assume that the remaining pilot must remain at the controls, and cannot render aid, so cabin crew would be called to assist. Would the distressed pilot be removed from the seat for care, or would they be left at the seat assuming that ground personnel are better equipped to deal with the issue?

If they are removed from the seat, is there any protocol that encourages the summoning of a deadheading or commuting pilot to fill the 2nd seat?

Does the time from a diversionary landing play into this scenario at all? What about single fleet carriers like WN or AS where other pilots on board are more likely to be type-rated?

thanks for playing along, Pilots!

If a pilot suffers a serious, debilitating medical episode in-flight (stroke, seizure, etc), aside from immediately landing, what is the procedure?

I guess the specifics are depending on the operator, but I can give you some insight on how a situation like that would be handled at my company.

I'm a first officer in the Dash-8 Q400 for a European operator.
If the Commander became incapacitated I automatically assume "command" of the airplane, so all of his/her functions are transfered to me. Of course I would stay in my seat. First action would be to make a distress call to the cabin crew via PA. These are usually phrased is such a way that the general public does not know that something out of the ordinary in going on, for example "Purser to interphone" or "cabin crew call flight crew" or something of the like. Then the cabin crew would call me via interphone and I would explain the situation. If it is safely possible to remove the captain from his/her seat we would probably do so, due to the risk of the unconscious person involuntarily interfering with the aircraft controls. If this is not possible due do the size of the captain the limited space in the Q400's flight deck, the unconscious person would be strapped tightly into their seat with the seatbelt lock function on. The cabin crew are trained on how to move the pilot seats and how to pull a pilot out of that seat.
Afterwards I would make an announcement to the passengers explaining the situation, assure them that I can also safely fly the airplane by myself but at the same time ask if any trained pilots are on board that could assist me. If there is a currently type-rated Captain of the Q400 employed at our company in the airplane and the unconscious captain can be removed from the controls they can take over and assume command of the airplane. In all other cases, command of the airplane rests with me.
If there now are other pilots on board that are not type rated Q400 captains of my company and they offer to help I would invite the one(s) into the flight deck that I would consider the most helpful. For example another Q400 first officer would be great, because they know all call outs, all procedures and are familiar with the aircraft so could assist me perfectly. Also another captain of my company but another fleet would be great, because they would know all company procedures and of course can also run the radio for me and monitor basic flying tasks. If I had both of those on board I would put the type rated FO in the left seat and the non-type-rated captain on the jump. This way we would have massive brain power in the flight deck.
If neither was available but some pilot of another company was present I would also invite them in to help me, because they of course still can assist with lots of stuff and supervise my actions. Last resort could be a private pilot or even air traffic controller or anybody who has some kind of relation to cockpit-related tasks.

Of course I would divert to the next possible airfield, because I want my colleague to get professional medical assistance as fast as possible. Now that doesn't necessarily mean the closest airfield. If I'm overhead one airport but still at FL240 and my destination is only 80NM away I would seriously consider flying to the destination in order to minimize workload. Because re-planing, getting weather, setting up another approach and managing all of the extras going on because of the incapacitation will probably lead to such a high workload for me that it isn't any faster to dive down to closer airfield, but one could make the case that it is definitely less safe because the hight workload for me greatly raises the odds of me making a mistake. But the very decision would be based on the actual circumstances at hand, like distance of airfields, weather, and the possible support of other pilots available. They would be of great help during the decision making process in this case.

Hope I could give you some insight, if you have any further questions, please go ahead.

Cheers,
T1a

tb727 wrote:

Woodreau wrote:

Deadheading pilots are not required to let the captain know they are on board (but most out of professional courtesy will check in). They may not be qualified to operate the aircraft they are riding.

And if you are on a certain carrier whose pilots won't even make eye-contact with your kind, say in ATL, then you just turn right and go to your seat and let them be lol.

Well there is THAT pilot group that snubs and looks down at everyone that's not in their pilot group.
In that case, I just thank them for getting me to Silver medallion status from all the frequent flyer miles I get for deadheading on their airplanes. Even they don't get frequent flyer miles for deadheading on their own airplane.

Woodreau wrote:

tb727 wrote:

Woodreau wrote:

Deadheading pilots are not required to let the captain know they are on board (but most out of professional courtesy will check in). They may not be qualified to operate the aircraft they are riding.

And if you are on a certain carrier whose pilots won't even make eye-contact with your kind, say in ATL, then you just turn right and go to your seat and let them be lol.

Well there is THAT pilot group that snubs and looks down at everyone that's not in their pilot group.
In that case, I just thank them for getting me to Silver medallion status from all the frequent flyer miles I get for deadheading on their airplanes. Even they don't get frequent flyer miles for deadheading on their own airplane.

Good point, being on Reserve with last minute airline tickets has it's perks!

T1a wrote:

If a pilot suffers a serious, debilitating medical episode in-flight (stroke, seizure, etc), aside from immediately landing, what is the procedure?

I guess the specifics are depending on the operator, but I can give you some insight on how a situation like that would be handled at my company.

I'm a first officer in the Dash-8 Q400 for a European operator.
If the Commander became incapacitated I automatically assume "command" of the airplane, so all of his/her functions are transfered to me. Of course I would stay in my seat. First action would be to make a distress call to the cabin crew via PA. These are usually phrased is such a way that the general public does not know that something out of the ordinary in going on, for example "Purser to interphone" or "cabin crew call flight crew" or something of the like. Then the cabin crew would call me via interphone and I would explain the situation. If it is safely possible to remove the captain from his/her seat we would probably do so, due to the risk of the unconscious person involuntarily interfering with the aircraft controls. If this is not possible due do the size of the captain the limited space in the Q400's flight deck, the unconscious person would be strapped tightly into their seat with the seatbelt lock function on. The cabin crew are trained on how to move the pilot seats and how to pull a pilot out of that seat.
Afterwards I would make an announcement to the passengers explaining the situation, assure them that I can also safely fly the airplane by myself but at the same time ask if any trained pilots are on board that could assist me. If there is a currently type-rated Captain of the Q400 employed at our company in the airplane and the unconscious captain can be removed from the controls they can take over and assume command of the airplane. In all other cases, command of the airplane rests with me.
If there now are other pilots on board that are not type rated Q400 captains of my company and they offer to help I would invite the one(s) into the flight deck that I would consider the most helpful. For example another Q400 first officer would be great, because they know all call outs, all procedures and are familiar with the aircraft so could assist me perfectly. Also another captain of my company but another fleet would be great, because they would know all company procedures and of course can also run the radio for me and monitor basic flying tasks. If I had both of those on board I would put the type rated FO in the left seat and the non-type-rated captain on the jump. This way we would have massive brain power in the flight deck.
If neither was available but some pilot of another company was present I would also invite them in to help me, because they of course still can assist with lots of stuff and supervise my actions. Last resort could be a private pilot or even air traffic controller or anybody who has some kind of relation to cockpit-related tasks.

Of course I would divert to the next possible airfield, because I want my colleague to get professional medical assistance as fast as possible. Now that doesn't necessarily mean the closest airfield. If I'm overhead one airport but still at FL240 and my destination is only 80NM away I would seriously consider flying to the destination in order to minimize workload. Because re-planing, getting weather, setting up another approach and managing all of the extras going on because of the incapacitation will probably lead to such a high workload for me that it isn't any faster to dive down to closer airfield, but one could make the case that it is definitely less safe because the hight workload for me greatly raises the odds of me making a mistake. But the very decision would be based on the actual circumstances at hand, like distance of airfields, weather, and the possible support of other pilots available. They would be of great help during the decision making process in this case.

Hope I could give you some insight, if you have any further questions, please go ahead.

Cheers,
T1a

thank you for that very detailed and interesting answer!

tb727 wrote:

Woodreau wrote:

Deadheading pilots are not required to let the captain know they are on board (but most out of professional courtesy will check in). They may not be qualified to operate the aircraft they are riding.

And if you are on a certain carrier whose pilots won't even make eye-contact with your kind, say in ATL, then you just turn right and go to your seat and let them be lol.

Haters will be haters...just sayn.

BravoOne wrote:

tb727 wrote:

Woodreau wrote:

Deadheading pilots are not required to let the captain know they are on board (but most out of professional courtesy will check in). They may not be qualified to operate the aircraft they are riding.

And if you are on a certain carrier whose pilots won't even make eye-contact with your kind, say in ATL, then you just turn right and go to your seat and let them be lol.

Haters will be haters...just sayn.

Amazing...you're are riding around free on their airline and you're bashing the pilot group at the same time?

Man I'm just poking fun, don't take it so seriously. Every airline has "that" guy who thinks he's God's gift to aviation. It isn't free either, they are paying a lot for those seats!

tb727 wrote:

Man I'm just poking fun, don't take it so seriously. Every airline has "that" guy who thinks he's God's gift to aviation. It isn't free either, they are paying a lot for those seats!

Absolutely right...every airline has its knuckleheads. However, you put that label on the entire pilot group.

tb727 wrote:

Man I'm just poking fun, don't take it so seriously. Every airline has "that" guy who thinks he's God's gift to aviation. It isn't free either, they are paying a lot for those seats!

I don't believe you are paying a dime for access to the JS and then sitting in he back under the CASS program? Who is paying as maybe I'm missing something. The difference between commuting and deadheading is in the eye of the beholder.

You need to learn the secret DL grind and bump + the high five:)

dfwjim1 wrote:

I travel fairly often by air within the United States and it seems like on every flight I take there is at least one uniformed pilot on every flight in the passenger cabin that is deadheading somewhere. In addition I imagine there are often pilots who are also traveling out of uniform. When pilots are deadheading is it a practice for them at the time of check to "sign in" in as commercial pilots in the highly unlikely event that their assistance is needed in the cockpit during an emergency?

Thanks for your responses.

If a pilot is deadheading, they are on duty. Regardless of their status, deadheading or commuting, and if they are riding on their own carrier's flight, most airlines require them to assist the working crew if they are called upon.

At least where I was if you're deadheading you are on duty; if you're commuting you're own your own nickel. When we were deadheading you had a co. bought ticket so you were just another passenger and no we did not sign in as a crewmember. Obviously if you were in uniform everyone would know but often we wore civvies. If J/S'ing on co. jets then you would try to sit in the foyer to stay out of the way unless for some rare reason you were needed. There were a few incidents of J/S'ing crewmembers trying to help like cracking the door open after block in only to blow the slide. You tried to stay out of the way and let the crew perform as trained.

Woodreau wrote:

tb727 wrote:

Woodreau wrote:

Deadheading pilots are not required to let the captain know they are on board (but most out of professional courtesy will check in). They may not be qualified to operate the aircraft they are riding.

And if you are on a certain carrier whose pilots won't even make eye-contact with your kind, say in ATL, then you just turn right and go to your seat and let them be lol.

Well there is THAT pilot group that snubs and looks down at everyone that's not in their pilot group.
In that case, I just thank them for getting me to Silver medallion status from all the frequent flyer miles I get for deadheading on their airplanes. Even they don't get frequent flyer miles for deadheading on their own airplane.

Sounds like you guys are jealous of the Hotel Van Admiral outfit.

ilovelamp wrote:

tb727 wrote:

Man I'm just poking fun, don't take it so seriously. Every airline has "that" guy who thinks he's God's gift to aviation. It isn't free either, they are paying a lot for those seats!

Absolutely right...every airline has its knuckleheads. However, you put that label on the entire pilot group.

American pilots taxi slow. Southwest pilots taxi fast. I labeled 2 more pilot groups but we all know the entire groups aren't like that!

Woodreau wrote:

Jumpseating pilots by courtesy are required to check in with the captain and request permission to ride irregardless of where they sit

Woodreau: Your posts are some of my favorites, and most informative. And I thank you so much for the time you spend answering questions.

But can I please ask you a favor (non-aviation related): PLEASE eliminate the word "irregardless" from your vocabulary. It's just "regardless." Irregardless technically means the opposite of "regardless." (The "Irr-" prefix cancels out the "-less" suffix). Consider replacing "irregardless" with "regardless," or "irrespective."

Just my PSA. I think I have OCD over that word. Sorry for the rant.

Again Woodreau, thank you for all the information you've posted

rjsampson wrote:

Woodreau wrote:

Jumpseating pilots by courtesy are required to check in with the captain and request permission to ride irregardless of where they sit

Woodreau: Your posts are some of my favorites, and most informative. And I thank you so much for the time you spend answering questions.

But can I please ask you a favor (non-aviation related): PLEASE eliminate the word "irregardless" from your vocabulary. It's just "regardless." Irregardless technically means the opposite of "regardless." (The "Irr-" prefix cancels out the "-less" suffix). Consider replacing "irregardless" with "regardless," or "irrespective."

Just my PSA. I think I have OCD over that word. Sorry for the rant.

Again Woodreau, thank you for all the information you've posted

Being a grammar pedant who dislikes "irregardless", it pains me to do this, but I must take a contrarian opinion. Irregardless is a word, and probably a mix of "irrespective" and "regardless". Thus it means the same as "regardless".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

Let the flaming being.

tb727 wrote:

Man I'm just poking fun, don't take it so seriously. Every airline has "that" guy who thinks he's God's gift to aviation. It isn't free either, they are paying a lot for those seats!

But only THAT airline has a pilot who tells you he's God's gift to aviation on the PA!

Paging Captain Hollywood ....

Starlionblue wrote:

Being a grammar pedant who dislikes "irregardless", it pains me to do this, but I must take a contrarian opinion. Irregardless is a word, and probably a mix of "irrespective" and "regardless". Thus it means the same as "regardless".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

Let the flaming being.

ugh. for the love of all that is..............
if is really is meant to be a mix of "irrespective" and "regardless", then it is utterly redundant and useless.
being written in a book does not make it "right"; it is as wrong as chocolate soup.
as per the very same m-w link you are citing: "Use regardless instead" ............

FlyHappy wrote:

Starlionblue wrote:

Being a grammar pedant who dislikes "irregardless", it pains me to do this, but I must take a contrarian opinion. Irregardless is a word, and probably a mix of "irrespective" and "regardless". Thus it means the same as "regardless".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

Let the flaming being.

ugh. for the love of all that is..............
if is really is meant to be a mix of "irrespective" and "regardless", then it is utterly redundant and useless.
being written in a book does not make it "right"; it is as wrong as chocolate soup.
as per the very same m-w link you are citing: "Use regardless instead" ............

BravoOne wrote:

tb727 wrote:

Man I'm just poking fun, don't take it so seriously. Every airline has "that" guy who thinks he's God's gift to aviation. It isn't free either, they are paying a lot for those seats!

I don't believe you are paying a dime for access to the JS and then sitting in he back under the CASS program? Who is paying as maybe I'm missing something. The difference between commuting and deadheading is in the eye of the beholder.

IIRC, ALPA put several million dollars into the KCM program - that money came from dues. So it's not truly free at least to the ALPA member crews.

tb727 wrote:

ilovelamp wrote:

tb727 wrote:

Man I'm just poking fun, don't take it so seriously. Every airline has "that" guy who thinks he's God's gift to aviation. It isn't free either, they are paying a lot for those seats!

Absolutely right...every airline has its knuckleheads. However, you put that label on the entire pilot group.

American pilots taxi slow. Southwest pilots taxi fast. I labeled 2 more pilot groups but we all know the entire groups aren't like that!

I use to think that also, but each week I commute on SWA and I have yet to be on time, Not once in the last two years. Of cousre this has little to do with taxi, speed and a lot to do with pushing back on time,

T1a wrote:

check that "blue is up, brown is down".

In the cockpit or the lav?

FlyHossD wrote:

IIRC, ALPA put several million dollars into the KCM program - that money came from dues. So it's not truly free at least to the ALPA member crews.

Don't confuse KCM with CASS.... CASS has been around a long long time... KCM (not so much)... KCM uses CASS... CASS doesn't use a thing from KCM.

CASS is just a part of the jumpseat processing. To back up the points above that have been spot on. Deadhead vs Commuting are NOT the same in any form. Jumpseating beyond being unpaid and on the pilots own time, is also not factored at all when it comes to duty times for legality sake... Deadheading can be (depending on a myriad of further factors)

ThePinnacleKid wrote:

FlyHossD wrote:

IIRC, ALPA put several million dollars into the KCM program - that money came from dues. So it's not truly free at least to the ALPA member crews.

Don't confuse KCM with CASS.... CASS has been around a long long time... KCM (not so much)... KCM uses CASS... CASS doesn't use a thing from KCM.

CASS is just a part of the jumpseat processing. To back up the points above that have been spot on. Deadhead vs Commuting are NOT the same in any form. Jumpseating beyond being unpaid and on the pilots own time, is also not factored at all when it comes to duty times for legality sake... Deadheading can be (depending on a myriad of further factors)

Perhaps my answer was too simple.

Yes, there's a difference between CASS and KCM and you're right that KCM uses CASS. My point was that ALPA spent millions making the KCM concept acceptable to the FAA and TSA, getting it tested and getting it implemented. IOW, KCM isn't free as it was paid for (in part) with ALPA dues.

Woodreau wrote:

However a commuting pilot can be either jumpseating or non-revving. Jumpseating pilots by courtesy are required to check in with the captain and request permission to ride regardless of where they sit - on the flight deck or in the cabin.

In our flight planning information, we have jumpseat request information, so we don't need the pilot to actually talk to us, we already know he/she is there. It is a courtesy to say hello, but often there is no time.

Except, if you fly for Southwest Airlines ...

EVERY time, I have seen a Southwest pilot on the list that he is riding in the back, he always stops at the cockpit, shakes my hand and thanks us for the seat. Every time! It isn't required, but to me, it sure says a lot about them ... their regard and respect for protocol and simple respect for their co-workers. I don't know, but I have a funny feeling there is a good relationship among employees at Southwest.

FlyHossD wrote:

Perhaps my answer was too simple.

Yes, there's a difference between CASS and KCM and you're right that KCM uses CASS. My point was that ALPA spent millions making the KCM concept acceptable to the FAA and TSA, getting it tested and getting it implemented. IOW, KCM isn't free as it was paid for (in part) with ALPA dues.

I get what you were saying... I was just pointing out that KCM has absolutely zero to do with pilots getting on the aircraft either Deadheading or Jump Seating. KCM is absolutely and 100% only a crew's security checkpoint access system and nothing to do with the pilot's aircraft access. I guess I'm just confused how KCM came up in this convo at all because it has nothing to do with the topic.

No it's not common practice to check in with the crew on a deadhead. It's a good idea to keep a low profile and blend in with the passengers. Sit down, shut up, and mind your own business. No one cares that you're there, you're not important and "checking in" is usually just going to be construed as an over-inflated sense of self-importance or make you seem like a weirdo. If you're jump-seating it's required to check in and ask permission to ride. If I'm jumpseating I'm at least going to attempt to ask permission because even if the carrier on which I'm riding doesn't require that, you never know when you'll be riding on the aircraft of the one guy at that company who takes issue if you don't. Crew incapacitation is so unlikely that it's not worth altering behavior over, and airliners can easily be flown single pilot if necessary in those situations. I just want to preferably be out of uniform, put on my headphones, watch a movie, read a book, and be left alone like anyone else.