acjbbj
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Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:17 pm

I am curious to see if the Trent 895 and PW4090/4098 engines for the early 777s are still being made. There are a bunch of them in service, so that's a possibility. And the 772ER is still listed (as of April 2018) on Boeing's price list, so could that imply availability of new Trent 895 and 4090/4098? Or is only the GE90-94B offered?
Favourite plane: "L-1011-800 TriStar Next Generation" :mrgreen:
(3-Engine cargo jet approximately the size of a 77F, with three Trent XWB-97. Two engines on the wing, the third in the tail with an S-duct.)
 
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77west
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:11 pm

As there are quite a few in service still, I would expect a full new engine is available but probably with a fairly long lead time. Plenty of spare parts around though.
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
lowbank
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Mon May 07, 2018 2:10 pm

There have not been any Trent 800’s built from new for some years now. Spares are still being made weekly.
Every days a school day.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Wed May 09, 2018 12:06 am

77west wrote:
As there are quite a few in service still, I would expect a full new engine is available but probably with a fairly long lead time. Plenty of spare parts around though.

All the parts for new engines are available at the rebuild shop. There is no reason one or two new engines couldn't be put together.

But that won't happen. Both the PW4090 and T800 are available used at a fraction of the original price.

There is no longer a PW4098. Pratt bought back all examples. While some made it into museams, none are in flying condition. They we're all replaced by PW4090s at Pratt's expense.

Lightsaber
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77west
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Thu May 10, 2018 9:08 am

lightsaber wrote:
77west wrote:
As there are quite a few in service still, I would expect a full new engine is available but probably with a fairly long lead time. Plenty of spare parts around though.

All the parts for new engines are available at the rebuild shop. There is no reason one or two new engines couldn't be put together.

But that won't happen. Both the PW4090 and T800 are available used at a fraction of the original price.

There is no longer a PW4098. Pratt bought back all examples. While some made it into museams, none are in flying condition. They we're all replaced by PW4090s at Pratt's expense.

Lightsaber


Yes, I forgot about he PW4098. That did not do so well... In terms of building a new engine from spares, would this still be classified as a "new" production engine, or what? Seems to me there may be a few components that are so rare in maintenance as to not be kept as spares (Fan case? as an example)
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
kalvado
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Thu May 10, 2018 2:38 pm

And let me ask a somewhat tangential question - how does engine service life related to airframe service life?
Just for example, lets say airline orders 100 twin-jets today with 200 on-wing engines, with intention to fly those planes until retirement - for 20 years, 100k hours. And they want to own everything, not power by the hour them for some reason.
They would also need to order 10 (or 5? or maybe more? ) engines as spares for maintenance rotations, and they expect to order 10 (maybe 2? or 50?) engines down the line to replace engines which are not economic to repair - and at retirement engines still on wing would have 10% (50% none?) service life still left in them.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Fri May 11, 2018 6:20 pm

77west wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
77west wrote:
As there are quite a few in service still, I would expect a full new engine is available but probably with a fairly long lead time. Plenty of spare parts around though.

All the parts for new engines are available at the rebuild shop. There is no reason one or two new engines couldn't be put together.

But that won't happen. Both the PW4090 and T800 are available used at a fraction of the original price.

There is no longer a PW4098. Pratt bought back all examples. While some made it into museams, none are in flying condition. They we're all replaced by PW4090s at Pratt's expense.

Lightsaber


Yes, I forgot about he PW4098. That did not do so well... In terms of building a new engine from spares, would this still be classified as a "new" production engine, or what? Seems to me there may be a few components that are so rare in maintenance as to not be kept as spares (Fan case? as an example)

It shocked me to learn Pratt keeps 10+ casings for all engine lines in stock. I learned about it when the JT9D was found to have late in life case issues and DL purchased all 25 spare cases in the inventory! I found out about is when Pratt was so scrambling for any casings to deliver that used engines I walked by were being either sold for nice profits or disassembled to see the casing.

You could order a new engine and the casing plate would be stamped with the next available engine s/n. If a casing is replaced, it gets the old s/n and the old engine casing gets X's through its s/n. Casings are intentionally overpriced as they are supposed to be the part that defines the engine s/n. But occasionally they are replaced; that is a headache in ensuring the s/n isn't duplicated at any time. The engine vendor QA must be present when the s/n is stamped into the casing.

Everything else is routinely replaced on varying intervals. Except the FADAQ (or old mechanical computer). That is too expensive for routine replacement. They get replaced, but oh the bill...

Lightsaber
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kitplane01
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Tue May 22, 2018 7:47 am

lightsaber wrote:
There is no longer a PW4098. Pratt bought back all examples. While some made it into museams, none are in flying condition. They we're all replaced by PW4090s at Pratt's expense.

Lightsaber


Huh? Why would this be?
 
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77west
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Thu May 24, 2018 5:58 am

kitplane01 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
There is no longer a PW4098. Pratt bought back all examples. While some made it into museams, none are in flying condition. They we're all replaced by PW4090s at Pratt's expense.

Lightsaber


Huh? Why would this be?


Did Not meet NOx emission requirements and fuel burn. Was pushing the design outside of its optimal envelope.
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
kurtverbose
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Thu May 24, 2018 8:54 am

77west wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
There is no longer a PW4098. Pratt bought back all examples. While some made it into museams, none are in flying condition. They we're all replaced by PW4090s at Pratt's expense.

Lightsaber


Huh? Why would this be?


Did Not meet NOx emission requirements and fuel burn. Was pushing the design outside of its optimal envelope.


The higher fuel consumption negated the extra fuel the greater thrust could lift. Made the engine pointless.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Fri May 25, 2018 5:18 am

kurtverbose wrote:
77west wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:

Huh? Why would this be?


Did Not meet NOx emission requirements and fuel burn. Was pushing the design outside of its optimal envelope.


The higher fuel consumption negated the extra fuel the greater thrust could lift. Made the engine pointless.


OK. The engine was bad. But why give money back to informed customers who bought them? The reason cannot be just to be nice.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Fri May 25, 2018 7:28 am

kitplane01 wrote:
OK. The engine was bad. But why give money back to informed customers who bought them? The reason cannot be just to be nice.

The only customer who took delivery was KE, and they only had a handful of examples.
Apparently it was less costly for Pratt to recall the engine and write off what they could.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Are the Trent 800 and PW4090/4098 engines still being made?

Fri May 25, 2018 5:33 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
OK. The engine was bad. But why give money back to informed customers who bought them? The reason cannot be just to be nice.

The only customer who took delivery was KE, and they only had a handful of examples.
Apparently it was less costly for Pratt to recall the engine and write off what they could.

A Fortune 500 company nice? No. It was penalties adding up to the tune of $2 million a year per airframe. It was cheaper to replace the engines and nacelles. Fuel burn miss was 4%! The plane had less range than the PW4090 when it was supposed to have more. This was the first of Pratt optimizing the LPC so much that it miss feed the HPC so badly the engine was horrible.

At least the PW1100G beat fuel burn promise.

Lightsaber
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