Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
qf002 wrote:I imagine that all the liquid is drained and then the lines flushed to remove any potentially dangerous residue before scrapping work begins (not just fuel, also hydraulics, lubricants, coolant liquids, water tanks etc). Liquids are one thing but I imagine there is also the danger of gas building up in small pockets which could be very dangerous when you start ripping things apart.
aeropix wrote:Whenever fuel is removed from an aircraft it cannot be used in aviation again, but is commonly used in GSE vehicles instead.
SpoonNZ wrote:aeropix wrote:Whenever fuel is removed from an aircraft it cannot be used in aviation again, but is commonly used in GSE vehicles instead.
When AKL had fuel shortages QF were tankering in fuel with their 747s and using it to top up their 737s and/or JQ’s A320s, so must be possible.
aeropix wrote:Whenever fuel is removed from an aircraft it cannot be used in aviation again, but is commonly used in GSE vehicles instead.
Flighty wrote:Maybe from an active duty airplane, the fuel is by definition fit for use. Once you lose custody of the airplane who knows what got thrown in the tanks, how long, Pisces or rust etc. it’s probably fine - usually - but whose jet do you suggest should burn it? Shouldn’t the fuel be filtered and tested? Can you certify an unknown substance as fuel? Do you want to take the risk? So hopefully ground vehicles can use the fuel- or use it as heating oil maybe.
mmo wrote:As far as this situation goes, the fuel is drained and can be used for diesel powered vehicles, as heating oi or sold to scrap fuel Byers who resell it as heating fuel.
aeropix wrote:Whenever fuel is removed from an aircraft it cannot be used in aviation again, but is commonly used in GSE vehicles instead.
L0VE2FLY wrote:Can a diesel engine run on jet fuel?
L0VE2FLY wrote:Speaking of fuel, how do airliner's fuel tanks look like? Are they all made of aluminum? I read on another thread that some old airliners used bladder-type fuel tanks.
L0VE2FLY wrote:Speaking of fuel, how do airliner's fuel tanks look like? Are they all made of aluminum? I read on another thread that some old airliners used bladder-type fuel tanks.mmo wrote:As far as this situation goes, the fuel is drained and can be used for diesel powered vehicles, as heating oi or sold to scrap fuel Byers who resell it as heating fuel.
Can a diesel engine run on jet fuel?
Heinkel wrote:No. A modern car/truck diesel engine will be damaged by using Jet A-1 in a short while. NATO is trying to do that because of the poor diesel quality available in Africa. Until now without success. The vehicle runs with the jet fuel but the injection pump is worn out very soon.
Phosphorus wrote:Heinkel wrote:No. A modern car/truck diesel engine will be damaged by using Jet A-1 in a short while. NATO is trying to do that because of the poor diesel quality available in Africa. Until now without success. The vehicle runs with the jet fuel but the injection pump is worn out very soon.
I understand you mean common rail diesel engines and pure Jet A?
I know in last years of USSR and early post-soviet years, imported (mainly European) diesel cars were all the rage for military airfield personnel. They blended grafted jet fuel with diesel fuel, and ran their cars problem-free.
Admittedly, that was 30 years ago, long before common rail technology -- just classic diesel vehicles.
Heinkel wrote:Phosphorus wrote:Heinkel wrote:No. A modern car/truck diesel engine will be damaged by using Jet A-1 in a short while. NATO is trying to do that because of the poor diesel quality available in Africa. Until now without success. The vehicle runs with the jet fuel but the injection pump is worn out very soon.
I understand you mean common rail diesel engines and pure Jet A?
I know in last years of USSR and early post-soviet years, imported (mainly European) diesel cars were all the rage for military airfield personnel. They blended grafted jet fuel with diesel fuel, and ran their cars problem-free.
Admittedly, that was 30 years ago, long before common rail technology -- just classic diesel vehicles.
Yes, I meant running modern common rail direct injecting diesel engines with pure jet fuel = Doesn't work.
Older diesel engines work with much lower injection pressures and the requirements for the fuel qualitiy was much lower. Mercedes recommended for the diesel cars to add up to 30% gas (petrol) in winter to keep the diesel pumpable. Try this on a modern common rail engine and you have several thousand $$$ or €€€ damage in a few minutes.
In the 1960s "multifuel" (Vielstoff) capablilities were mandatory for diesel powered army vehicles. These engines had to be able to run with diesel fuel, jet fuel and even gas (petrol). This required a special lubricated ignition pump and other modifications. Later they abandoned this, because they thought, that there will be always enough diesel fuel available.
Those were the days...
FlyHappy wrote:SpoonNZ wrote:aeropix wrote:Whenever fuel is removed from an aircraft it cannot be used in aviation again, but is commonly used in GSE vehicles instead.
When AKL had fuel shortages QF were tankering in fuel with their 747s and using it to top up their 737s and/or JQ’s A320s, so must be possible.
Perhaps the restriction is that the fuel cannot be resold as aviation fuel on the market, but does not apply to an internal operation?
Heinkel wrote:aeropix wrote:Whenever fuel is removed from an aircraft it cannot be used in aviation again, but is commonly used in GSE vehicles instead.
AFAIK when fuel must be reomoved from an active a/c because of repairs on the fuel system, it can be stored in special tanks and later pumped back to the same a/c after the repair. You can't use it for an other a/c.
Heinkel wrote:aeropix wrote:Whenever fuel is removed from an aircraft it cannot be used in aviation again, but is commonly used in GSE vehicles instead.
AFAIK when fuel must be reomoved from an active a/c because of repairs on the fuel system, it can be stored in special tanks and later pumped back to the same a/c after the repair. You can't use it for an other a/c.
aeropix wrote:Whenever fuel is removed from an aircraft it cannot be used in aviation again, but is commonly used in GSE vehicles instead.
mmo wrote:Heinkel wrote:aeropix wrote:Whenever fuel is removed from an aircraft it cannot be used in aviation again, but is commonly used in GSE vehicles instead.
AFAIK when fuel must be reomoved from an active a/c because of repairs on the fuel system, it can be stored in special tanks and later pumped back to the same a/c after the repair. You can't use it for an other a/c.
Incorrect with respect to your comments about other aircraft. The fuel removed can be used in any aircraft in the company's fleet.
Heinkel wrote:L0VE2FLY wrote:Speaking of fuel, how do airliner's fuel tanks look like? Are they all made of aluminum? I read on another thread that some old airliners used bladder-type fuel tanks.mmo wrote:As far as this situation goes, the fuel is drained and can be used for diesel powered vehicles, as heating oi or sold to scrap fuel Byers who resell it as heating fuel.
Can a diesel engine run on jet fuel?
No. A modern car/truck diesel engine will be damaged by using Jet A-1 in a short while. NATO is trying to do that because of the poor diesel quality available in Africa. Until now without success. The vehicle runs with the jet fuel but the injection pump is worn out very soon.
If you find a simple tweak to run a modern car/truck diesel engine on Jet fuel, you can make millions.
The problem ist, that jet fuel has poor capabilities in lubricating the injection pump and the injectors. In a jet engine the fuel is delivered continuously to the combustion chamber at a relativey low pressure. On a diesel car/truck engine, the fuel must be delivered just in time at each stroke at a much higher pressure.
UAL747422 wrote:I would imagine it's like a lawnmower or any car where if it sits for too long, it creates kind of a varnish were it is any kind of changes form. Not to mention it breaks down and becomes less effective. I don't know if its the same with avgas, but they are both petrol-based. But to answer your question I think it would leave the fuel tanks in the wing quite dirty... with a nice gasoline varnish.