Max Q
Topic Author
Posts: 6317
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

KSSU

Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:25 am

I believe this was a business arrangement between


KLM
Swissair
Sabena
UTA


Hence the initials.



These Airlines all operated identical types in the same era , I think it
was mainly the DC10-30 and 747-200/300 that the agreement was based on
to pool parts for engines and airframes etc..


What else did this cover ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
e38
Posts: 500
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: KSSU

Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:16 am

Max, KSSU was:

KLM
SAS
Swissair
UTA
_________

e38
 
User avatar
Florianopolis
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:54 pm

Re: KSSU

Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:31 am

This PDF says

Dating back to the late 1960ies, Swissair's first alliance was the KSSU group (with KLM, SAS and UTA) for the joint maintenance of widebody aircraft which were being introduced at that time.

And

As early as 1950, Swissair, KLM and Sabena had created a joint spare parts pool in the so-called BeNeSwiss Agreement. In 1958 Swissair and SAS had crafted a cooperative agreement to standardize their fleets around a number of jet types and to pool maintenance and training resource


Later on, really bad alliance strategy (thanks to the highly paid geniuses at McKinsey & Co) helped kill Swissair.
 
User avatar
xms3200
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:13 am

Re: KSSU

Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:57 pm

Sabena went on to the ATLAS consortium,.....Alitalia, Lufthansa, Iberia, Air France & Sabena
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2706
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: KSSU

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:58 pm

Where did ANZ fit into this scheme?
 
stratclub
Posts: 133
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:38 pm

Re: KSSU

Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:06 pm

ANZ maintenance is in house. https://www.airnewzealand.com/engineeri ... aintenance
For code sharing, ANZ is a member of the STAR Alliance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Alliance
 
User avatar
xms3200
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:13 am

Re: KSSU

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:21 am

ANZ did use vertical tapes for engine instruments in their DC-10's & 747-219B's just like the KSSU birds. I do not know if they had any biased selection of their engine instruments following in the footsteps of the KSSU config. Personally, I think the KSSU cockpit configuration was way ahead of the game for their time, vertical tapes, vertical flaps indication, full size standby ADI, flight engineer re-fueling panel....etc
 
Max Q
Topic Author
Posts: 6317
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: KSSU

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:44 am

What do you mean by ‘flight engineer refueling panel’ ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2706
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: KSSU

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:55 am

stratclub wrote:
ANZ maintenance is in house. https://www.airnewzealand.com/engineeri ... aintenance
For code sharing, ANZ is a member of the STAR Alliance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Alliance


Thanks, but that's not where I was going with the question. I should have been more explicit as I that the ANZ DC10-20 were either KSSU or ATLAS configured. I has occasion to fly one of these every so often and it was a PITA simply because they had the AINS-70 area nav system which was okay if you operated it frequently but almost dangerous if say once every 90 days. I thought these airplanes were KSSI configured but I might be wrong.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2706
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: KSSU

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:04 pm

Max Q wrote:
What do you mean by ‘flight engineer refueling panel’ ?


It's been to long so I have forgotten most if not all the ANZ DC10-30 stuff. But FWIW, the early 707/720's had an aux panel just to the right of the main FE panel where the FFE could pre-select the fuel load, I suspect that the ANZ airplanes had a similar provision. The 707/720 system was deleted on later 707 series aircraft as it was more bother than it was worth in that the precise load was all over the place at times if the FE was not really careful, whereas the under wing system worked better a producing accurate fuel loads.
 
arcticcruiser
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:16 pm

Re: KSSU

Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:01 pm

ATLAS vs KSSU refers to galley standards
http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=774163
 
arcticcruiser
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:16 pm

Re: KSSU

Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:05 pm

arcticcruiser wrote:
ATLAS vs KSSU refers to galley standards.
http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=774163


There were other aspects such as spares pooling and engineering/maintenance IIRC. But the legacy of those are the galley equipment standards.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2706
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: KSSU

Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:34 pm

XMS3200's comments regarding the flight deck configuration strikes a chord simply because there must have been more to this than galley furnishing?
 
arcticcruiser
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:16 pm

Re: KSSU

Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:47 pm

BravoOne wrote:
XMS3200's comments regarding the flight deck configuration strikes a chord simply because there must have been more to this than galley furnishing?


Probably. I flew both ex KLM and ex SAS DC-8-63s, no special cockpit commonality there IIRC.
 
User avatar
xms3200
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:13 am

Re: KSSU

Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:38 pm

The KSSU & ATLAS standard were mostly applied to the 747's & DC-10's. The galleys as well as the cockpits was where you noticed the commonalities.
The flight engineer refueling panel was a nice option where you could refuel the plane controlling the operation from the cockpit, it was a duplicate of the wing refueling panel
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2706
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: KSSU

Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:13 pm

xms3200 wrote:
The KSSU & ATLAS standard were mostly applied to the 747's & DC-10's. The galleys as well as the cockpits was where you noticed the commonalities.
The flight engineer refueling panel was a nice option where you could refuel the plane controlling the operation from the cockpit, it was a duplicate of the wing refueling panel


As noted in my earlier post, it didn't work very well I the 707. It may have been an option as I have only seen it in few early 707/720'.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GalaxyFlyer, OMP777X, pikachu, Starlionblue, WKTaylor and 22 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos