kamast
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:30 am

Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:42 am

Hi everybody,

We plan to start charter flight between Paris and a non served town in Africa, we received a quote from a French Airline that offer us about 290,000 USD for 2100 nm route (round trip / 11 h), so near 26 000 usd per hour. That seems to us very expensive to compare with DOC of this aircraft (about 9000 USD per hour). Even if we know that operative cost are more important on Africa(+30%), do you think like us that the airline may have taken a very important margin ? In your mind what's should be the good price we could achieve for considering previous info about A330-200 aircraft ?
 
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zeke
Posts: 12279
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Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:19 am

How many people and how much cargo are you moving ?

Direct operating cost is only part of the total (or actual) operating cost !!!

What is the destination in Africa ? NIM ?

The cost of fuel in NIM for example is 3 times higher than CDG, if you can get it.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
kamast
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:30 am

Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:49 am

Destination is Mali
Fuel Price × 2.5 to compare with Paris
But half of the round trip (30t from Mali)

Max capacity 345 pax / 46 kg hold bagage / 10 kg hand lugage.
 
stratclub
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:38 pm

Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:35 am

If your aircraft has a range of 7240 Nautical miles, as Google suggests, even with the additional fuel burn because of weight, it might be cheaper to fuel for the round trip in Paris. The other consideration is the cost of turning the aircraft at your destination. For that you should have someone on the ground at your destination to gain an understanding of the local infrastructure.

If I had a chance to study your numbers, I might offer some insight. Is your quote dependent on PAX load factors or a set payment amount per flight?
 
stratclub
Posts: 132
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Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:31 am

What is the airport code for your destination?
 
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zeke
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Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:40 am

kamast wrote:
Destination is Mali
Fuel Price × 2.5 to compare with Paris
But half of the round trip (30t from Mali)

Max capacity 345 pax / 46 kg hold bagage / 10 kg hand lugage.


That’s about 48 tonnes of payload, is the payload both directions ? It would be around maximum capacity for an A330-200.

The route is more like 2500 nm by the time you fly airways and the departure and arrival. LFPG some SID ERIXU UN860 GUERE UZ365 NARAK UN859 LOMRA UN727 ROCAN UN859 BCN UQ79 SADAF UA29 CHE UG26 TRB UM986 BAY UG26 TIO UM735 USRUT UB735 POTOL UM108 SOLMA UB735 ONTOL UM108 LITIL UB735 KOSIL some STAR GABS
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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zeke
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Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:41 am

stratclub wrote:
If your aircraft has a range of 7240 Nautical miles, as Google suggests, even with the additional fuel burn because of weight, it might be cheaper to fuel for the round trip in Paris. The other consideration is the cost of turning the aircraft at your destination. For that you should have someone on the ground at your destination to gain an understanding of the local infrastructure.

If I had a chance to study your numbers, I might offer some insight. Is your quote dependent on PAX load factors or a set payment amount per flight?


With that payload it would be maximum landing weight limited.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
commpilot
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Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:55 am

$9000/hr would just be a book listed DOC. Take into account the actual cost of fuel, all the landing/parking/handling/navigation/security fees. DOC is usually just the airplane turned on burning fluids and doesn't account for the crew. Is this a one off charter or will be it a public charter service with multiple flights a week/month. $290,000 isn't outrageous considering the airline wants a profit too.
 
ap305
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Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:58 am

I would assume additional insurance costs would be a factor for the operator at a place like Mali?
Racing, competing, is in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I've been doing it all my life. And it stands up before anything else- Ayrton Senna
 
citationjet
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:57 pm

The DOC of US$ 9,000 per hour for an A330 seems a little low. Also it does not include many additional expenses required for the trip. Ground handling, landing fees, dead head flights to position the aircraft, higher fuel charges in Africa, profit, etc. would have to be added to the DOC. Business jets like Citations have a DOC of a couple of thousand dollars per hour, and they only carry 6 to 8 pax.
I recently received a quote for a Southwest 737 charter flight. Four hours round trip flying time was about US$ 112,000. We ended up booking 110 seats on a regular scheduled Southwest flight for half the price of the charter.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:56 pm

A332 Chartered under dry lease le usually 12-14k€ per flight hour.

Sounds your request is during High season.
 
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zeke
Posts: 12279
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Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:20 am

A380MSN004 wrote:
A332 Chartered under dry lease le usually 12-14k€ per flight hour.

Sounds your request is during High season.


Do you mean wet lease ?
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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longhauler
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Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:34 am

Some other considerations ....

Are you just chartering the one leg or the round trip? For how long are you down there? Will the aircraft stay at your destination? (expensive) Or will it return to Paris and pick you up for the return? (doubling the cost of the operation).

What will happen to the crew? Can they do the round trip (or two) or will they lay over and a fresh crew brings the aircraft home, (twice).

Remember, there are far more costs involved in operating an aircraft than just direct operating costs. Gating, passenger handling, catering, grooming, ATC fees Customs/Immigration fees, etc. Then you have crew costs, hotels, meals, transport.

I used to do a lot of ACJetz sports team charters when I flew the A320. Say, sports team A chartered a 56 seat A320 to fly from MKE to TPA. Just a 2 1/2 hour flight right? .... wrong! You have to place the aircraft and crew there, cater it, groom it, handle it, fuel it, then return it from TPA, or let it sit there for a day, then do the process all over again after the flight. It was all very very expensive and far more costs than just a flight from MKE to TPA!

So if you were quoted USD290,000 to fly from Paris to Africa ... then bring you home at a later date ... that sounds about right. That's all you have to pay. All of the other costs and concerns (and it would be considerable) would be borne by the airline.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:25 pm

zeke wrote:
A380MSN004 wrote:
A332 Chartered under dry lease le usually 12-14k€ per flight hour.

Sounds your request is during High season.


Do you mean wet lease ?


Sorry yes wet lease indeed
 
KFlyer
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:05 pm

Re: Your opinion about Airbus A330-200 charter quote

Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:42 pm

We need more info on the proposed operation. Is this for a same day round trip, or would the aircraft have to do two round trips to complete your one passenger round trip? If it's the latter, the amount sounds very reasonable.

Is the operation later in the Summer? The fuel prices are going up and will be at least USD 2.5/Gal quite soon.

Is the operation in a peak week? The airline may have to cancel some scheduled flights (if they are one) in that case. This increases the cost further.

Important to keep in mind are the fuel, crew, maintenance and ownership factors.
Fuel would be about USD4,800/hr ex PAR.
Maintenance at least USD2,000/hr.
Crew would depend a lot on your operating pattern, but could come close to USD1,000/hr.
Ownership would depend on the aircraft's age, but if it's fairly new, USD2,000/hr is not too far off.
Then you need to add all the handling (3000+ per turn) and catering (15/pax) etcetera.
The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.

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