Hello all,

I was just wondering about the evolution of cabin crew rests. They used to be seats blocked off with a curtain in a cabin and these days then again there are dedicated ares for crew to go to. Which types had them right from the start? Did Boeing 747-200s and -300s have them? I work myself on the -400s and we have them so I know by 1989 Boeing had them installed right from the beginning. But did DC10s/MD11/L1011/B777s have them? Can those even be retrofitted later on? Thanks for any input.

The 777 have a crew rest. The 747-300 as far as i know didn't as did the DC 10. The MD 11 not sure about but I never came across any information indicating that a crew rest was optional. A lot depends on the airline as Well weather the want a crew rest or not.

There are mid-cabin solutions that can be retrofitted to any airliner. They appear to passengers as a walled off area but inside are bunk beds where seats were once installed.

But I’m sure you’re meaning the hidden ones. Well airbus offer below deck crew rest as a modular solution that can take the place of a cargo container so this one may be retrofitted provided the required air and electrical services are installed also.

I do remember Continental installing retrofitted crew rest in the crown of the 777 many years after delivery as well. That installation made the overhead lockers a couple inches lower so not as elegant as the factory solution but it can be done.

So the broad answer to your question is yes, just not as pretty as a factory install.

I came across this site (link at the end) about KLM farewell MD11 flight. There is a little paragraph saying that KLM was planning to have some sort of crew rest installed in them. Anyone knows why they did not go ahead with these? Time ran out on the type before? I know in Europe crew rest (in any shape and form) is very regulated, how is it with other carriers in other parts of the World? Another thing that I wondered about the 747 is that when did the little crew rest behind the flight deck appear on the Jumbos? Also when the 400 was introduced?

http://www.flyroni.aero/tr048.html

aeropix wrote:

There are mid-cabin solutions that can be retrofitted to any airliner. They appear to passengers as a walled off area but inside are bunk beds where seats were once installed.

But I’m sure you’re meaning the hidden ones. Well airbus offer below deck crew rest as a modular solution that can take the place of a cargo container so this one may be retrofitted provided the required air and electrical services are installed also.

I do remember Continental installing retrofitted crew rest in the crown of the 777 many years after delivery as well. That installation made the overhead lockers a couple inches lower so not as elegant as the factory solution but it can be done.

So the broad answer to your question is yes, just not as pretty as a factory install.

Where is the crew rest on triple 7? I've only been on this aircraft once as a passenger. is it down the back like on the 747s?

okay wrote:

aeropix wrote:

There are mid-cabin solutions that can be retrofitted to any airliner. They appear to passengers as a walled off area but inside are bunk beds where seats were once installed.

But I’m sure you’re meaning the hidden ones. Well airbus offer below deck crew rest as a modular solution that can take the place of a cargo container so this one may be retrofitted provided the required air and electrical services are installed also.

I do remember Continental installing retrofitted crew rest in the crown of the 777 many years after delivery as well. That installation made the overhead lockers a couple inches lower so not as elegant as the factory solution but it can be done.

So the broad answer to your question is yes, just not as pretty as a factory install.

Where is the crew rest on triple 7? I've only been on this aircraft once as a passenger. is it down the back like on the 747s?

I’m sure airlines have different configurations but I know of two areas. (Both above the cabin.) some airlines have both one above first/business at the front and one towards the back above Economy. The front one is between door 1 & 2 and the back between door 4 & 5. (This is a -300(ER)). I assume on the 200 the back is between doors 3&4. The front one is smaller I’m aware of and for flight crew while he larger one at the back is for cabin crew. I’m sure this varies hugely but the space is above the pax cabin not behind or below on the B777.

As for access just infront or behind the valleys sometime by toilets there is a locked door that looks like a cupboard and behind is a steep ladder above. Sometimes a overhead bin or too is smaller, doesn’t open or non existent due to the ladder/stairs to get up.

On the 777 it's over the passenger cabin at the back and one by the forward galley. Concerning the KLM MD 11 the missions the aircraft flew did not warrant a crew rest at the time. But I could be wrong.

777 also have a below deck option

george77300 wrote:

okay wrote:

aeropix wrote:

There are mid-cabin solutions that can be retrofitted to any airliner. They appear to passengers as a walled off area but inside are bunk beds where seats were once installed.

But I’m sure you’re meaning the hidden ones. Well airbus offer below deck crew rest as a modular solution that can take the place of a cargo container so this one may be retrofitted provided the required air and electrical services are installed also.

I do remember Continental installing retrofitted crew rest in the crown of the 777 many years after delivery as well. That installation made the overhead lockers a couple inches lower so not as elegant as the factory solution but it can be done.

So the broad answer to your question is yes, just not as pretty as a factory install.

Where is the crew rest on triple 7? I've only been on this aircraft once as a passenger. is it down the back like on the 747s?

I’m sure airlines have different configurations but I know of two areas. (Both above the cabin.) some airlines have both one above first/business at the front and one towards the back above Economy. The front one is between door 1 & 2 and the back between door 4 & 5. (This is a -300(ER)). I assume on the 200 the back is between doors 3&4. The front one is smaller I’m aware of and for flight crew while he larger one at the back is for cabin crew. I’m sure this varies hugely but the space is above the pax cabin not behind or below on the B777.

As for access just infront or behind the valleys sometime by toilets there is a locked door that looks like a cupboard and behind is a steep ladder above. Sometimes a overhead bin or too is smaller, doesn’t open or non existent due to the ladder/stairs to get up.

Sounds very much like how it is on the 787. Does/can 76s have proper crew rests? If so, where? I flew on the type long ago but with a charter airline and we didnt have them then. These days I have understood at least in Europe proper crew rest areas are compulsory.

I'm pretty sure KLM had two bunks for pilots behind the captain's seat when their MD11 was new and they had First class. I had a KLM timetable with seat maps and always thought the MD11 had way to much galley space and closets and whatnot and barely any seats... cabin crew had business class seats with a curtain around, IIRC...

okay wrote:

george77300 wrote:

okay wrote:

Where is the crew rest on triple 7? I've only been on this aircraft once as a passenger. is it down the back like on the 747s?

I’m sure airlines have different configurations but I know of two areas. (Both above the cabin.) some airlines have both one above first/business at the front and one towards the back above Economy. The front one is between door 1 & 2 and the back between door 4 & 5. (This is a -300(ER)). I assume on the 200 the back is between doors 3&4. The front one is smaller I’m aware of and for flight crew while he larger one at the back is for cabin crew. I’m sure this varies hugely but the space is above the pax cabin not behind or below on the B777.

As for access just infront or behind the valleys sometime by toilets there is a locked door that looks like a cupboard and behind is a steep ladder above. Sometimes a overhead bin or too is smaller, doesn’t open or non existent due to the ladder/stairs to get up.

Sounds very much like how it is on the 787. Does/can 76s have proper crew rests? If so, where? I flew on the type long ago but with a charter airline and we didnt have them then. These days I have understood at least in Europe proper crew rest areas are compulsory.

Can’t comment on proper crew rest areas on the B767 but I know they often have the blocked seats and a curtain such as United on their longer routes.

Also the hours requirement for a proper crew rest and not blocked Economy seats is quite high that I don’t think the B767 has the range to fly for 12+hrs like the B777/B787 can. Not completely sure though or what the time is.

]I remember the cabin on the Air New Zealand 767-300 had a walled off section of the cabin (between economy and buisness class) on the right side. I sat right behind it and it looked like your average bulkhead. The plane was old the wall of the cabin and the bulkhead had become separated just enouph for me to get a peak ( I didn’t know at the time it was for the crew). It just had first class seats maybe 8 or 10 of them in a locked off area with a small door next to the galley and restrooms. I do have a picture but can’t for the life of me figure out how to add it

I’m going pretty sure I’ve heard of some Air Canada 767s, having both FD and CC crew rest bunks. I also know that some Delta 767s have a FD crew bunk and I’m sure I’ve heard the 767-400 having a CC rest facility? I’m sure I also saw a picture of an Austrian 767 with a crew rest facility.

777 also have a below deck option

The MH B777-200ER had a container at the front of the rear cargo hold with six beds in it. Access was from a door in the cabin in the R aisle. No markings on the door at all. Remember it well as there was a smoke alarm reset just inside the door at the top of a near vertical stairway. Push this reset and a no go Status appeared that took ages to trouble shoot the first time you saw it!
The container was a std sized double baggage container on the tracks, locked in position with big words DO NOT REMOVE.

I have worked on many L1011 Tristar of different airlines and never saw any crew rest beyond the curtained off seats.

Here is a link with pics listing some crew rest cabins.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-id ... 004ccd2c6e

Great link. On the B787 you would never even know there are 2 crew rest. One in the overhead at door one and one in the overhead at door 4. The entry doors for both just look like a part of the galley in that area. Completely non discrete.

At American Airlines the first plane to have crew bunks was the MD-11 circa mid nineties. There were 2 bunks length wise at 2R for only the pilots.
The 777-200 was delivered with 2 pilot bunks adjacent to the cockpit and 4 bunks mid cabin for the flight attendants.
The 777-300 has 2 crew rest areas in the ceiling. 2 bunks and 2 seats up front for the pilots and 8 bunks in the back for the flight attendants.
The 787 has 2 bunks in the ceiling up front for the pilots and 6 in the ceiling in back for the flight attendants.
Prior to the mid 90’s, all crew rest areas were passenger seats. Business/first class seats for the pilots and coach seats for the flight attendants. American really sucked up to the point regarding crew rest since at the time they were flying long haul such as DFW-NRT.
Today the 767-300 has 4 high comfort seats for the flight attendants at 17AB and 17HJ. The pilots get a business class seat. Not sure about today but at one point they were sell the seat next to the pilot on the 767-300 on JFK-CDG.
Back in the day the 767-200 had 2 regular passenger seats for the flight attendants. Pretty atrocious since they were used on several DFW-Europe routes.
The remaining 757’s have a business class seat for the pilots and two rows in the back with a surrounding curtain for the flight attendants.

CRJ900 wrote:

I'm pretty sure KLM had two bunks for pilots behind the captain's seat when their MD11 was new and they had First class. I had a KLM timetable with seat maps and always thought the MD11 had way to much galley space and closets and whatnot and barely any seats... cabin crew had business class seats with a curtain around, IIRC...

They never had these bunks and they never had a first class section.

stratclub wrote:

Great link. On the B787 you would never even know there are 2 crew rest. One in the overhead at door one and one in the overhead at door 4. The entry doors for both just look like a part of the galley in that area. Completely non discrete.

Same on the 350. The linked article only shows the cabin crew rest. The flight crew rest is more or less like this, though some small details have changed since that drawing.

CRJ900 wrote:

I'm pretty sure KLM had two bunks for pilots behind the captain's seat when their MD11 was new and they had First class.

Some MD-11s had a pull-out crew rest module with two bunks that blocked the L1 door when deployed. Not sure if KLM had it, but the original MD-11s leased to DL from Mitsui/Tombo were delivered with them.

That's what we had in some of our MD-11s Good air flow was sometimes a problem and they weren't very roomy but beat lying in the floor on a "futon" cushion by L1 door. Just the normal air leak around the door would freeze your butt! I would use 5 or 6 of the sirkine blankets.

should read AIRLINE blankets

At BA, we have a range of crew rest areas on our aircraft:

747-400

The cabin crew rest area is at the back of the aircraft in the tail section. There are 2 variations, but both contain 8 bunks and 4 seats, one of the variations has a toilet up there. For flight crew, all 744 aircraft are standard, the rest area is located within the flight deck, the standard 2 bunks. A toilet is also located within the flight deck.

787-8/787-9

CC rest area is above the cabin at L4. Contains 6 bunks. All 787 aircraft are standard.

Flight crew have rest area adjacent to L1 above the cabin.

777-300

CC area is above the cabin at the rear, next to L5. Much like a train carriage it stretches the length of the rear economy cabin. Much loved by the cabin crew, as its bunks are more spacious.

Flight crew is similar to 787 and located above cabin at L1.

777-200ER

CC is above cabin at R3, contains 8 bunks and 2 high comfort seats.

FD is either above cabin at L1 or there is a small cupboard type bunk area forward of R2 in the first class cabin. It is curtained off and we loose 2 F seats if this is installed.

777-200

No rest area fitted. Flight crew will take their rest in passenger seat, either in F or J. Cabin Crew have seats blocked off and surrounded by a curtain in economy section and "high comfort" jump seats at doors 1 and 2. Loathed by cabin crew, as door areas are notoriously cold and the blocked off economy seats are directly next to galley and toilet areas, so its rather noisy.

767

No bunks were fitted. Rest was taken for both flight and cabin crew in passenger cabin.

It is worth noting there are implications with FTL and extending duties if bunks are not fitted.

george77300 wrote:

okay wrote:

george77300 wrote:

I’m sure airlines have different configurations but I know of two areas. (Both above the cabin.) some airlines have both one above first/business at the front and one towards the back above Economy. The front one is between door 1 & 2 and the back between door 4 & 5. (This is a -300(ER)). I assume on the 200 the back is between doors 3&4. The front one is smaller I’m aware of and for flight crew while he larger one at the back is for cabin crew. I’m sure this varies hugely but the space is above the pax cabin not behind or below on the B777.

As for access just infront or behind the valleys sometime by toilets there is a locked door that looks like a cupboard and behind is a steep ladder above. Sometimes a overhead bin or too is smaller, doesn’t open or non existent due to the ladder/stairs to get up.

Sounds very much like how it is on the 787. Does/can 76s have proper crew rests? If so, where? I flew on the type long ago but with a charter airline and we didnt have them then. These days I have understood at least in Europe proper crew rest areas are compulsory.

Can’t comment on proper crew rest areas on the B767 but I know they often have the blocked seats and a curtain such as United on their longer routes.

Also the hours requirement for a proper crew rest and not blocked Economy seats is quite high that I don’t think the B767 has the range to fly for 12+hrs like the B777/B787 can. Not completely sure though or what the time is.

767s have proper crew rests, even the old 200s had them. I used to fly 12+hours on 767s, great plane

The A340 had removable crew rests in the form of special belly containers that could be accessed from the cabin. You can see a demonstration here: https://youtu.be/jWkJur-lL-4?t=1h21m12s