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Narfish641
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Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Hello everyone! As you many know already Delta currently has total of 57 767-300ERs in their fleet. Within the fleet are a mix of frames equipped with either the Pratt & Whitney PW4060s or the General Electric CF6-80 engines. However (And I don't know if it's just me), I started to notice that majority of the fleet has switched some (Or most) frames with the Pratts, and it seems like the GEs are getting rarer and rarer within Delta's 763ER fleet. There used to be quite a few frames with the CF6-80 engines, but now it seems like a whole bunch are using the PW4060 engines. First, I want to ask how many frames as of this year are equipped with the two engines? Airfleets don't normally update their page a lot so that's one reason why I am asking.

And lastly, why has Delta switched most of their frames to the Pratts? Performance wise? Better Maintenance? Etc. Etc.

Anyways thank you for your answers and have a blessed week.
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77west
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:09 pm

I didn't think swapping engine manufacturers was an option on the 767.
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BravoOne
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:14 pm

That would be akin to a sex change and there so much more to an engine swap that meets the eye. No Delta is not doing that.
 
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77west
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:06 pm

Even on the 787, where it was supposed to be easy to swap motors, the feature never really caught on. There have been a few frames over the years that have been swapped, but usually by the manufacturer after flight testing, or so on. Not on production / operational frames by the airline themselves.
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MO11
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:26 pm

Remember, the original DL 767s were CF6. When the first -ERs were delivered, they (along with a handful of non -ERs) were PW4000 (around 1990). The last group of 767s were delivered with CF6 engines. There are also some ex-Gulf Air airplanes that are CF6.

Of the 57 -300ERs, 27 are CF6, 30 are PW4060.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:33 am

39 domestic airplanes with CF6-80A2s have all been retired from the fleet. The A2 engine is much different from the C2 engine flying in the current fleet.
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Runway28L
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:14 am

Narfish641 wrote:
I started to notice that majority of the fleet has switched some (Or most) frames with the Pratts, and it seems like the GEs are getting rarer and rarer within Delta's 763ER fleet. There used to be quite a few frames with the CF6-80 engines, but now it seems like a whole bunch are using the PW4060 engines.

As others mentioned already, the majority of the 763A fleet, many of which were CF-6 powered, have been phased out. Also, the former Gulf Air fleet with the oddball exit door configuration will be the first batch of 763ERs to go and they are also GE powered.

As for the rest of the fleet, most of the GE powered 763s are in the High-J config (36J 29Y+ 143Y) and fly on specific routes that have higher premium demand. 7 of these planes have special crew rest modules and these 7 are essentially "based" at SEA to do routes to Asia since the crew rest module is needed. Examples of routes that the High-J frames do are SEA-NRT, CVG-CDG, ATL-SCL, ATL-FRA, and DTW-LHR.
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta_ ... 6L_new.php

For the P&W powered half, most of them are in the Low-J config (26J 35Y+ 165Y) except for the ex-Gulf Air planes that are GE-powered and fly on specific routes that have lower premium demand. Examples of routes that the Low-J frames do are JFK-AMS, PIT-CDG, JFK-LAX/SFO, and HNL-NRT.
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta_ ... 00ER_C.php

It really depends at which airport you are at. If you are at DTW, SEA, or BOS, it's likely you'll find more GE 763s whereas at JFK you can find a lot of the P&W powered 763s. ATL seems like half and half.
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Runway28L
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:24 am

77west wrote:
Even on the 787, where it was supposed to be easy to swap motors, the feature never really caught on. There have been a few frames over the years that have been swapped, but usually by the manufacturer after flight testing, or so on. Not on production / operational frames by the airline themselves.

IIRC, the first A330 was originally GE powered, but then converted to RR and delivered to CX after flight testing.
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77west
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:13 am

Runway28L wrote:
77west wrote:
Even on the 787, where it was supposed to be easy to swap motors, the feature never really caught on. There have been a few frames over the years that have been swapped, but usually by the manufacturer after flight testing, or so on. Not on production / operational frames by the airline themselves.

IIRC, the first A330 was originally GE powered, but then converted to RR and delivered to CX after flight testing.


Yes, I remember that, it was an A330-300; I believe the A380 and 787 have also both had engine swaps before delivery. I have a feeling a 747 may have, but am a little more hazy on that one. (or mixing it up with another type)
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mmo
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:35 pm

77west wrote:
I have a feeling a 747 may have, but am a little more hazy on that one. (or mixing it up with another type)



To be honest, I don't think the 747 family had had that done as the pylon mounts are very different for all three engine types. I know NW did a swap with removing Qs from some 200B aircraft and replaced with them with Rs from late build 747Fs. If you are talking about that type of swap, then it could be done, but if it was swapping out totally different engine types, it's a major job. IIRC, I think Atlas did it with one of their aircraft, but can't remember the specifics.
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LH707330
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:42 pm

mmo wrote:
77west wrote:
I have a feeling a 747 may have, but am a little more hazy on that one. (or mixing it up with another type)



To be honest, I don't think the 747 family had had that done as the pylon mounts are very different for all three engine types. I know NW did a swap with removing Qs from some 200B aircraft and replaced with them with Rs from late build 747Fs. If you are talking about that type of swap, then it could be done, but if it was swapping out totally different engine types, it's a major job. IIRC, I think Atlas did it with one of their aircraft, but can't remember the specifics.

There have been a few engine swaps on 747s. The prototype flew with GE engines in the 70s, and there were a few other PW->GE conversions as well.
 
mmo
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:12 pm

LH707330 wrote:
There have been a few engine swaps on 747s. The prototype flew with GE engines in the 70s, and there were a few other PW->GE conversions as well.


I think you might be a little confused. The test 747 flew with PW JT9D-3A engines, first flight was on 9 Feb 1969. The 100B was the first version offered with GE engines. In addition, as I wrote, I know of one PW to GE swap done by Atlas. However, that was the only one I know of which was done to an active aircraft. In addition, there were, as I mentioned several swaps of PW to PW done as the strut was essentially the same.
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:01 pm

mmo wrote:
LH707330 wrote:
There have been a few engine swaps on 747s. The prototype flew with GE engines in the 70s, and there were a few other PW->GE conversions as well.


I think you might be a little confused. The test 747 flew with PW JT9D-3A engines, first flight was on 9 Feb 1969. The 100B was the first version offered with GE engines. In addition, as I wrote, I know of one PW to GE swap done by Atlas. However, that was the only one I know of which was done to an active aircraft. In addition, there were, as I mentioned several swaps of PW to PW done as the strut was essentially the same.


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trex8
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:23 pm

Runway28L wrote:
77west wrote:
Even on the 787, where it was supposed to be easy to swap motors, the feature never really caught on. There have been a few frames over the years that have been swapped, but usually by the manufacturer after flight testing, or so on. Not on production / operational frames by the airline themselves.

IIRC, the first A330 was originally GE powered, but then converted to RR and delivered to CX after flight testing.

I thought it was a 777.
https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/b-hnl/
The 777 series was the most comprehensively tested airplane in history. Nine aircraft were used in the test program. WA001 was in testing until April 1997, by which time it had accumulated 1,729 flight hours and another 1,033 hours of ground testing.

Purchased by Cathay Pacific, the first “Triple Seven” was completely refurbished and equipped for passenger service, configured as a 777-267. The engines were replaced by two Rolls-Royce RB211 Trent 884B-17 high-bypass turbofan engines. These engines are rated at 85,430 pounds of thrust for takeoff (5 minutes limit). Because of their lighter weight, the empty weight of the airliner was reduced approximately 7,500 pounds (3,400 kilograms). The airliner was rolled out of the factory for the second time 31 October 2000, and was delivered to the Cathay Pacific on 6 December. It is registered B-HNL, and remains in service.
 
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:24 pm

trex8 wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
77west wrote:
Even on the 787, where it was supposed to be easy to swap motors, the feature never really caught on. There have been a few frames over the years that have been swapped, but usually by the manufacturer after flight testing, or so on. Not on production / operational frames by the airline themselves.

IIRC, the first A330 was originally GE powered, but then converted to RR and delivered to CX after flight testing.

I thought it was a 777.
https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/b-hnl/
The 777 series was the most comprehensively tested airplane in history. Nine aircraft were used in the test program. WA001 was in testing until April 1997, by which time it had accumulated 1,729 flight hours and another 1,033 hours of ground testing.

Purchased by Cathay Pacific, the first “Triple Seven” was completely refurbished and equipped for passenger service, configured as a 777-267. The engines were replaced by two Rolls-Royce RB211 Trent 884B-17 high-bypass turbofan engines. These engines are rated at 85,430 pounds of thrust for takeoff (5 minutes limit). Because of their lighter weight, the empty weight of the airliner was reduced approximately 7,500 pounds (3,400 kilograms). The airliner was rolled out of the factory for the second time 31 October 2000, and was delivered to the Cathay Pacific on 6 December. It is registered B-HNL, and remains in service.


Actually both are true, CX just happened to be the recipient of both aircraft. Also the first 2 A330s were both converted from GE to RR powerplants.
 
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Re: Has Delta Start Switching More of Their 767-300ER Birds to PW4000s?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:06 am

Narfish641 wrote:
Hello everyone! As you many know already Delta currently has total of 57 767-300ERs in their fleet. Within the fleet are a mix of frames equipped with either the Pratt & Whitney PW4060s or the General Electric CF6-80 engines. However (And I don't know if it's just me), I started to notice that majority of the fleet has switched some (Or most) frames with the Pratts, and it seems like the GEs are getting rarer and rarer within Delta's 763ER fleet. There used to be quite a few frames with the CF6-80 engines, but now it seems like a whole bunch are using the PW4060 engines. First, I want to ask how many frames as of this year are equipped with the two engines? Airfleets don't normally update their page a lot so that's one reason why I am asking.

And lastly, why has Delta switched most of their frames to the Pratts? Performance wise? Better Maintenance? Etc. Etc.

Anyways thank you for your answers and have a blessed week.

None of the ERs have had engines swapped. Most of the domestic 767s were CF6-80A1 powered and have all been parked, maybe this is why it seems like more Pratts are flying around?

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