ZeeZoo
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I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:11 pm

So let's say for example a British Airways pilot has a 3/4 day layover in New York. Are they required to stay within New York those 3-4 days? Or are they able to hop onto a flight to San Fransisco and then come back to NYC the day before their own flight?

Or if they arrived in Delhi for 4 days, wanted to travel to Mumbai for a day or two, did so, and then came back to Delhi before their scheduled flight? Is that acceptable?

Thanks!
 
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zeke
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:03 pm

Depends on the country, some countries like Japan there is a 200 km limit, others no limit on domestic or international travel.
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:16 pm

zeke wrote:
Depends on the country, some countries like Japan there is a 200 km limit, others no limit on domestic or international travel.


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B777LRF
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:20 pm

Also depends highly on the company policy of the carrier. I highly doubt the likes of e.g. Qatar Airways would allow you even to venture outside city limits. The company I used to fly for had no travel restrictions when we were on an extended lay-over, at most we might have stand-by duties in the off-chance our services were needed elsewhere, but that was rare. Yet, it still happened to me whilst soaking up the sun in an African backwater. Got phoned up and was positioned by commercial carrier to Bahrain, from where I picked up a flight the next day. But that's very much band-aid planning, as now the company had to position a replacement for me into the African backwater. Which was very expensive (one-way J-class ticket to ABJ departure 'tomorrow', is around 7K EUR). Can be cheaper if you place little value in safety.
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VSMUT
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:31 pm

Depends on the airline, but my employers have always been pretty large with it. One discouraged you from leaving the country, within reasonable limits. Ergo, if you are staying for an extended weekend in Madrid, then please don't go to France or Portugal. Of course if you are staying in a border region, like Basel, then crossing the border is no harder than taking a tram ride.
Many choose to ignore it though, and travel halfway across Europe to go home. Of course they run a strong risk loosing their jobs if for some reason they can't get back on the following Monday. It's hard to blame Ryanair for a cancelled flight or weather for closing the airport when you were expected to stay relatively close to the aircraft.
 
OSL777FLYER
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:36 pm

3-4 day long layovers are mostly a thing of the past. Especially New York. Maybe on some places that are served 2-3 times per week. As far as I know, unless it is more than 8 hours time difference, the crews fly back the next day.
 
csavel
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:45 pm

I would assume airlines also might have some rules? I mean if you have a 3/4 day layover in New York, fly to San Francisco (5 hour flight, 3 hours difference) and fly back in those three days, you might be too tired to really do your job. I don't think major airlines are watching their crew like nannies, but still, there must be some consideration that you have to be ready, fit, and rested for duty.

This is not to say you can't enjoy New York or rent a car and go hiking somewhere in the Catskills, or similar.

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Varsity1
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:46 pm

Most layovers (almost all) are 8-70~ hours. Not enough to go much of anywhere.

After you fly as much as a pilot does to the same destinations hundreds or thousands of times, the novelty wears off and all you want is a decent night of sleep.
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ZeeZoo
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:08 pm

OSL777FLYER wrote:
3-4 day long layovers are mostly a thing of the past. Especially New York. Maybe on some places that are served 2-3 times per week. As far as I know, unless it is more than 8 hours time difference, the crews fly back the next day.

Really? So is the whole "International carrier Pilots being away from home a lot" a bit overstated?

I've only seen some BA rosters on PPRUNE and they seemed to have 2-3 day layovers.
 
VSMUT
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:09 pm

OSL777FLYER wrote:
3-4 day long layovers are mostly a thing of the past. Especially New York. Maybe on some places that are served 2-3 times per week. As far as I know, unless it is more than 8 hours time difference, the crews fly back the next day.


No it isn't, it still happens all the time. I fly ATRs, and I have at least one or two per month. My friends at Ryanair and Norwegian also have them from time to time.
 
Varsity1
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:28 pm

ZeeZoo wrote:
OSL777FLYER wrote:
3-4 day long layovers are mostly a thing of the past. Especially New York. Maybe on some places that are served 2-3 times per week. As far as I know, unless it is more than 8 hours time difference, the crews fly back the next day.

Really? So is the whole "International carrier Pilots being away from home a lot" a bit overstated?

I've only seen some BA rosters on PPRUNE and they seemed to have 2-3 day layovers.


They are away from home because they are flying the airplanes constantly, not vacationing in tourist destinations.

When did this website get so out of touch?
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
Varsity1
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:29 pm

VSMUT wrote:
OSL777FLYER wrote:
3-4 day long layovers are mostly a thing of the past. Especially New York. Maybe on some places that are served 2-3 times per week. As far as I know, unless it is more than 8 hours time difference, the crews fly back the next day.


No it isn't, it still happens all the time. I fly ATRs, and I have at least one or two per month. My friends at Ryanair and Norwegian also have them from time to time.



Maybe at your house.

Unless you fly heavies internationally on sparse routes, airlines try not to give anymore than they are legally obligated to. 1 in 7.
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ilovelamp
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:50 pm

ZeeZoo wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
ZeeZoo wrote:
Really? So is the whole "International carrier Pilots being away from home a lot" a bit overstated?

I've only seen some BA rosters on PPRUNE and they seemed to have 2-3 day layovers.


They are away from home because they are flying the airplanes constantly, not vacationing in tourist destinations.

When did this website get so out of touch?

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment ... oster.html

I'm literally seeing 4-5 day trips there.


That thread is almost 7 years old so the odds if it not being entirely accurate are high.
 
ZeeZoo
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:52 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
ZeeZoo wrote:
OSL777FLYER wrote:
3-4 day long layovers are mostly a thing of the past. Especially New York. Maybe on some places that are served 2-3 times per week. As far as I know, unless it is more than 8 hours time difference, the crews fly back the next day.

Really? So is the whole "International carrier Pilots being away from home a lot" a bit overstated?

I've only seen some BA rosters on PPRUNE and they seemed to have 2-3 day layovers.


They are away from home because they are flying the airplanes constantly, not vacationing in tourist destinations.

When did this website get so out of touch?

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment ... oster.html

I'm literally seeing 4-5 day trips there.
 
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787Driver
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:58 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Most layovers (almost all) are 8-70~ hours. Not enough to go much of anywhere.

After you fly as much as a pilot does to the same destinations hundreds or thousands of times, the novelty wears off and all you want is a decent night of sleep.


Disagree. Sometimes if I have 48+ hours layover, I even rent a car and drive somewhere.

Our longest layover is 72 hours. Not bad actually, but depending on the destination, sometimes you just want as short a layover as possible so you can get home again asap.
 
Varsity1
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:03 pm

ZeeZoo wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
ZeeZoo wrote:
Really? So is the whole "International carrier Pilots being away from home a lot" a bit overstated?

I've only seen some BA rosters on PPRUNE and they seemed to have 2-3 day layovers.


They are away from home because they are flying the airplanes constantly, not vacationing in tourist destinations.

When did this website get so out of touch?

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment ... oster.html

I'm literally seeing 4-5 day trips there.


A 'Trip" isn't one flight out, one flight back. It's several legs back to back in a 4-5 day stretch.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
Varsity1
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:04 pm

787Driver wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Most layovers (almost all) are 8-70~ hours. Not enough to go much of anywhere.

After you fly as much as a pilot does to the same destinations hundreds or thousands of times, the novelty wears off and all you want is a decent night of sleep.


Disagree. Sometimes if I have 48+ hours layover, I even rent a car and drive somewhere.

Our longest layover is 72 hours. Not bad actually, but depending on the destination, sometimes you just want as short a layover as possible so you can get home again asap.


I don't see what you disagree with.
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DiamondFlyer
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:11 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
ZeeZoo wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

They are away from home because they are flying the airplanes constantly, not vacationing in tourist destinations.

When did this website get so out of touch?

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment ... oster.html

I'm literally seeing 4-5 day trips there.


A 'Trip" isn't one flight out, one flight back. It's several legs back to back in a 4-5 day stretch.


Exactly, it wouldn't be unheard of at my place, to fly 22-25 flights in a 5 day trip.
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mmo
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:16 pm

Trying to get the thread back on track. It depends on the airline. One airline I worked for based in SIN, would sometimes have a STBY period during the layover to cover another flight which would be operating out of the layover station. So, if you had that in your line, you were pretty much restricted on where you could go. But, if you had a good relationship with crewing, they often times would work with you if you had something to do.
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RetiredWeasel
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:46 pm

I know of pilots who on a 30 hour LAX layover would fly home to PHX or some other close city to stay and visit with their families. It would normally be discussed with the rest of the front-end crew. "See you at check in..." were the parting words. Of course there were a lot of jumpseats between LAX and PHX or wherever he/she might be going and frequencies.

Leaving a foreign country on a long layover (emphasize long..) can present visa/crew pass problems as you normally enter the country on a mutually agreed country crew visa. Leaving and coming back in as a passenger can entail a lot of red tape but has been done.
 
CosmicCruiser
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:56 pm

The place I was at still has layovers up to 96 hrs(4 days). I have a friend who has a trip now that is one to an int'l city, 96 hr layover then back to the states with a D/H back to Europe with a shorter layover the one leg to the first city with 75 hr layover! I'm jealous, longest I ever got was 75 hrs or maybe one 96 hr in CDG.
Crew sched. never wants to let you go so we often saw HTL STDBY just to make sure you didn't get out of place. Not often though. Pilots will routinely travel out of the city to see the sights on long layovers. Enjoy it while you can as it will go away, for sure when you retire.
 
thepinkmachine
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:57 pm

My previous airline had no issues with that - it was commonly accepted. On a Melbourne layover, I once took a passenger ship to Tasmania. On Europe layovers it was not uncommon to fly home for a day, 2-3 countries away.

Having said that, you always had to have a plan B. Not showing up for the return flight would probably cause a punishment (oh yes, the airline in question loved that word) and possibly restrictions for everyone.

My current airline - the problem is non-existent, as our layovers are never longer than 24h.

Having said that all - when I was flying for regionals, I always dreamed of a time when I could fly to exotic destinations around the world. Now, when I do it, I usually dream of decent sleep and a quick return home...

Sometimes I’m too lazy, or tired to get out of my hotel room, let alone travel anywhere... :mrgreen:
 
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787Driver
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:24 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
787Driver wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Most layovers (almost all) are 8-70~ hours. Not enough to go much of anywhere.

After you fly as much as a pilot does to the same destinations hundreds or thousands of times, the novelty wears off and all you want is a decent night of sleep.


Disagree. Sometimes if I have 48+ hours layover, I even rent a car and drive somewhere.

Our longest layover is 72 hours. Not bad actually, but depending on the destination, sometimes you just want as short a layover as possible so you can get home again asap.


I don't see what you disagree with.


You said there’s mostly not enough time to go anywhere. That’s the statement I disagree with.
 
jordanh
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:05 pm

787Driver wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
787Driver wrote:
Disagree. Sometimes if I have 48+ hours layover, I even rent a car and drive somewhere.
Our longest layover is 72 hours. Not bad actually, but depending on the destination, sometimes you just want as short a layover as possible so you can get home again asap.

I don't see what you disagree with.

You said there’s mostly not enough time to go anywhere. That’s the statement I disagree with.


Layover time can be expanded... and compressed. Our airline allows virtually unlimited trading among crew; I have seen times when a Captain may juggle his schedule with others and create a week-long (or longer) holiday, often flying into one airport - on one continent - and out of another - sometimes on another continent.

It all depends on your priorities.
 
CosmicCruiser
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:49 pm

We could never do that. I know what you're saying and a few guys tried but it was never approved as it starts changing up the pairing.
 
edgaren
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:05 pm

A few years ago when crews were still allowed to leave their hotel during ccs layovers, it was common sight to spot the Alitalia crew in The Los Roques Archipelago, laying on the beach. So Typically theyd arrive monday afternoon, fly to LRV tuesday morning (30 minute flight), take a daytour and spend the day there, then by the evening they went back to ccs and on wednesday evening they flew back to Rome. Now this brings me to the next question, can or should crew members drink or indulge in alcohol consumption cuz Ive also seen a few sipping on a margarita here and there.
 
CosmicCruiser
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:28 pm

of course as long as you meet the limits set by the company and the FAA or controlling agency.
 
VSMUT
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:21 pm

edgaren wrote:
Now this brings me to the next question, can or should crew members drink or indulge in alcohol consumption cuz Ive also seen a few sipping on a margarita here and there.


What, during the Monday and Tuesday? I don't see why not, it would have been 24 hours or more to the flight. Crew members have a life too.

Now if they were drinking alcohol on the day of the flight, or while in uniform, that's a completely different question, then it starts getting sketchy.
 
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qf789
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:45 am

Please stay on topic and keep the off topic and personal commentary out of the discussion
Forum Moderator
 
NozPerry
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:34 am

It depends, obviously there’s the obvious, no drinking in uniform, no drugs or breaking laws but normally you can’t leave the country. I.e. if you’re in Malaysia you can’t go to Singapore or to Bali etc because normally if the immigration officer is strict then they’ll argue “you entered as crew you leave as crew” so they don’t like it if you fly around as a passenger.
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Starlionblue
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:53 am

As seen in replies above, company policy and country policy vary. There's no single answer.

A good idea if you're going to leave the layover city overnight is to let the captain or cabin crew chief know your plans, and leave a contact number with him/her.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
speedbird52
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:43 am

Now I'm wondering, is there a specific policy for Israel? I can imagine plenty of pilots who would want to visit Jerusalem, but also imagine plenty of reasons why that may not be a good idea.
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speedbird52
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:49 am

jordanh wrote:
787Driver wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
I don't see what you disagree with.

You said there’s mostly not enough time to go anywhere. That’s the statement I disagree with.


Layover time can be expanded... and compressed. Our airline allows virtually unlimited trading among crew; I have seen times when a Captain may juggle his schedule with others and create a week-long (or longer) holiday, often flying into one airport - on one continent - and out of another - sometimes on another continent.

It all depends on your priorities.

pm this airline so I can consider a job with you
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Starlionblue
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:28 am

speedbird52 wrote:
Now I'm wondering, is there a specific policy for Israel? I can imagine plenty of pilots who would want to visit Jerusalem, but also imagine plenty of reasons why that may not be a good idea.


Media-fueled perceptions notwithstanding, much of Israel is quite relaxed and doesn't feel unsafe. Obviously big cities will have crime but walking around central Tel Aviv feels no less safe than walking around Manhattan. Just take normal precautions as you would in any other unknown and new place.

Visiting the old city of Jerusalem is like visiting any other historic city, albeit with more security personnel in evidence. Just get there by tour bus or whatever. Fascinating place. Visiting Bethlehem is a bit more involved due to being in a Palestinian controlled zone, but for most foreign nationals it's just a matter of passing through a checkpoint and meeting a local guide on the other side.

You can even travel to Jordan as long as you have a visa for that country.

Big caveat: Nationals of some countries will find travel to and within Israel considerably more involved.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
speedbird52
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Re: I've always wondered, what leeway (in terms of travel) do pilots have during layovers in other countries?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:08 pm

Being religious myself, I suppose if I ever do get a chance to fly to Tel Aviv as a pilot, I would enjoy that trip quite a lot
"I have control" Three Words That Could Have Saved Lives.

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