SpaceshipDC10
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How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:48 pm

Since the type has been in service for roughly a quarter century and gone from a regional to a long-range capable aircraft, how do the latest versions compare to what was available back then range/payload/MTOW-wise ? How many steps/increases happened over the years to what's available now ?
I have discovered that once people are truly captivated in their ignorance, they are generally unwilling to let the facts interfere.
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ikolkyo
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:18 pm

Well the aircraft initially had a 212t MTOW and it's now currently at 242t and it will now increase to 251t with the A330neo. If my memory serves me well I believe for awhile 238t was the standard and there were weight variations made below that before the increase to the current 242t MTOW.
 
StTim
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:46 pm

How much of the increased MTOW was structure - in order to carry the additional payload/fuel?
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:54 am

Higher weights as mentioned. LCDs instead of CRTs. Integrated LCD standby instrument instead of multiple steam ones. FBW rudder.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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Balerit
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:50 am

Starlionblue wrote:
Higher weights as mentioned. LCDs instead of CRTs. Integrated LCD standby instrument instead of multiple steam ones. FBW rudder.



Is the rudder still operated by the foot pedals?
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Starlionblue
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:02 am

Balerit wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
Higher weights as mentioned. LCDs instead of CRTs. Integrated LCD standby instrument instead of multiple steam ones. FBW rudder.


Is the rudder still operated by the foot pedals?


Yes. How you control the rudder manually hasn't changed. The control architecture has changed.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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zeke
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:49 pm

StTim wrote:
How much of the increased MTOW was structure - in order to carry the additional payload/fuel?


It has actually marginally reduced.
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StTim
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:55 pm

zeke wrote:
StTim wrote:
How much of the increased MTOW was structure - in order to carry the additional payload/fuel?


It has actually marginally reduced.



So this is actually all gain. The standard av.net law is that long range aircraft are much heavier as they need additional structure to carry the fuel weight.

Obviously for the A330 they had some additional weight saving options as A340 required structure was removed. So a double win for the 330.
 
CRJ900
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:00 pm

IIRC, it was posted here on A.net some time ago that the centre fuel tank has "always been there" on the A333 but has only been activated with the 242t MTOW version - is that true?

I always thought the A330-200 had an extra fuel tank installed when it was launched, but then I read that the A332 simply used the fuel tanks found on the A342/A343. I assume Airbus wanted to keep the A333 as a medium-haul bird and the A343 as the long-ranger, but as four engines fell out of fashion they had to beef up the A333 to keep market share.

If Airbus had launched the 242t A333 15 years ago - would they have sold even more, you think?
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zeke
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:07 pm

StTim wrote:
So this is actually all gain. The standard av.net law is that long range aircraft are much heavier as they need additional structure to carry the fuel weight.


Even the A320 sees marginal weight reductions as more experience is gained with the structure.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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zeke
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:09 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
IIRC, it was posted here on A.net some time ago that the centre fuel tank has "always been there" on the A333 but has only been activated with the 242t MTOW version - is that true?


The centre tank is the centre wing box which is on every A330/A340


http://www.aritex-es.com/en/project/air ... s-francia/
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
WIederling
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:23 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
I assume Airbus wanted to keep the A333 as a medium-haul bird and the A343 as the long-ranger, but as four engines fell out of fashion they had to beef up the A333 to keep market share.

If Airbus had launched the 242t A333 15 years ago - would they have sold even more, you think?


The A340/A330 combo allowed Airbus to go whichever way various "things" would develop. Had ETOPS not moved ahead
they would have done more quads. Improving engine sfc over time was "autoexpansion" of capabilities.
Watching the frames in use allowed various finetuning ( some hardware but mostly FBW twiddling by the looks of it.)
The A332 was introduced when the planets stood in the right order to exceed some magic range limit ( with CWB fuel ).
Later the A333 improved beyond the same threshhold and voila A332 went out of favor and A333 with CWB tank enabled got the nod.
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:25 pm

StTim wrote:
Obviously for the A330 they had some additional weight saving options as A340 required structure was removed. So a double win for the 330.

That step only happened recently. Together with the NEO changes.
Murphy is an optimist
 
StTim
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:39 pm

WIederling wrote:
StTim wrote:
Obviously for the A330 they had some additional weight saving options as A340 required structure was removed. So a double win for the 330.

That step only happened recently. Together with the NEO changes.



I thought some wing strengthening (for the second plyon etc) was removed some time back,
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:46 pm

WIederling wrote:
The A332 was introduced when the planets stood in the right order to exceed some magic range limit ( with CWB fuel ).
Later the A333 improved beyond the same threshhold and voila A332 went out of favor and A333 with CWB tank enabled got the nod.


One has to remember the A332 was launched into production sometimes in 1995 or 1996 and entered service in Spring 1998. That's a long time ago and since Airbus kept updating the A333's capabilities the smaller version lost some of its attractiveness.
I have discovered that once people are truly captivated in their ignorance, they are generally unwilling to let the facts interfere.
(Rick Drury's Flightlines "Paychecks", Airways April 2003)
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:50 am

CRJ900 wrote:
IIRC, it was posted here on A.net some time ago that the centre fuel tank has "always been there" on the A333 but has only been activated with the 242t MTOW version - is that true?

I always thought the A330-200 had an extra fuel tank installed when it was launched, but then I read that the A332 simply used the fuel tanks found on the A342/A343. I assume Airbus wanted to keep the A333 as a medium-haul bird and the A343 as the long-ranger, but as four engines fell out of fashion they had to beef up the A333 to keep market share.

If Airbus had launched the 242t A333 15 years ago - would they have sold even more, you think?


On the center line fuel tank, I believe that a 238t A333 also has it activated. Had the A333 been launched much sooner as a 242t frame, I don't see how the A345 or A346 make it to market.
 
WIederling
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:20 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
On the center line fuel tank, I believe that a 238t A333 also has it activated. Had the A333 been launched much sooner as a 242t frame, I don't see how the A345 or A346 make it to market.


Overlay A333 @ 242t payload range chart with those from A345 or A346 ( or 77W :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
trex8
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:30 pm

The A332 has always had the center tank, the 241t A333s got it also. 238t was not a common weight variant, 230, 233 probably the commonest.
 
WIederling
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:57 pm

trex8 wrote:
The A332 has always had the center tank, the 241t A333s got it also. 238t was not a common weight variant, 230, 233 probably the commonest.

http://www.airbus.com/content/dam/corpo ... mily-E.pdf
page 4 overleaf 5:
• 1994 A330-300 EIS 212t
• 1998 A330-200 EIS 230t
• 1999 A330-300 230t
• 2003 A330-300 Enhanced 233t
• 2004 A330-200 Enhanced 233t
• 2010 A330-200 238t and A330F EIS
• 2011 A330 MRTT (Multi Role Tanker Transport) EIS
• 2012 A330-300 235t
• 2015 A330 242t
• 2016 A330 regional weight variant 199t (options 190t , 205t)
• 2017 A330neo 251t option

Did Airbus ever publish performance projections for the 251t derivative?
Murphy is an optimist
 
trent768
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Re: How do currently available A330-300s compare to earlier ones ?

Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:40 pm

I've always wondered why no other airline that flies A330 on regional routes use Trent 768 other than GA. I've heard rumours that GA's older A330s with T768 were very reliable because of the de-rated engine.

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