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neomax
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Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:26 am

Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:05 am

I know that while it is very rare for any airline to powerback anywhere these days, but it is my understanding that the practice faded not due to safety reasons, but fuel costs. That said, this was some time ago, and it's been a good decade since those days, so has the practice returned occasionally in some form?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:16 am

At EAL, it was done to save on ground crew costs. The pushback crew had to have an expensive tug operator and certain qualifications on the marshallers. It was cheaper to powerback because you only needed the nose marshaller, IIRC.

GF
 
Max Q
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:08 am

Fuel cost is not the issue, nearly all aircraft that used to powerback were rear engine types such as the MD80 and B727

This configuration minimized exposure to foreign object damage
to the engines


Just about all contemporary jet transports have high bypass turbofans mounted under the wing and are most vulnerable to FOD


Not to mention, for the most part they are not certified for it.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
Sean-SAN-
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:58 am

Allegiant is still certified to do them but I don't think they ever happen in reality
 
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neomax
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:40 am

Max Q wrote:
Fuel cost is not the issue, nearly all aircraft that used to powerback were rear engine types such as the MD80 and B727

This configuration minimized exposure to foreign object damage
to the engines


Just about all contemporary jet transports have high bypass turbofans mounted under the wing and are most vulnerable to FOD


Not to mention, for the most part they are not certified for it.


There are still tons of MD-80's with DL and AA, why waste the certification if you still have the planes?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:12 pm

Because it’s like walking into work or school with a cigarette dangling from your mouth.

Sure it was cool but today...

1. In most places it is illegal

2. Costs a lot of money (2 engine taxi and where and tear from reversers)

3. Kinda dangerous
 
Flighty
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:11 pm

Noise is one reason why not.
 
COSPN
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:44 pm

727 was not authorized for powerback because it was very tail heavy... I worked USAF C-17 at GUM because UAM was closed.. offloaded the few Guam bound pax ...they walked to the terminal.. then after they got their fuel .. they just powerbacked and off to DNA
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:37 pm

COSPN wrote:
727 was not authorized for powerback because it was very tail heavy... I worked USAF C-17 at GUM because UAM was closed.. offloaded the few Guam bound pax ...they walked to the terminal.. then after they got their fuel .. they just powerbacked and off to DNA


Not clear on what you're saying here....several airlines used poweback on their 727's instead of tugs during the 80s and 90s. Or am I not reading your post correctly.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:44 pm

I remember working at Republic's MEM hub and powerback was the norm , especially with all those shorty 9's
 
COSPN
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:59 pm

At CO and most other airlines 727 not authorized only DC-9. MD 80...
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:09 pm

COSPN wrote:
At CO and most other airlines 727 not authorized only DC-9. MD 80...


You're wrong about 'most other airlines'. NWA, American, United, Eastern, TWA all did 727 powerbacks. Not sure about Delta.
 
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NWAROOSTER
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:18 pm

727s were tail heavy for power backs. Once tried it with a maintenance 727 and lifted the nose wheel. You could do it if you were very careful. But with no passengers especially up front it was kind of touch and go. You only used the number one and three power plants. :old:
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
Lpbri
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:18 pm

Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:50 pm

One thing you had to remember was that if you touched the brakes during a power back, the plane may stand on its tail.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:53 pm

NWAROOSTER wrote:
727s were tail heavy for power backs. Once tried it with a maintenance 727 and lifted the nose wheel. You could do it if you were very careful. But with no passengers especially up front it was kind of touch and go. You only used the number one and three power plants. :old:


Done all the time at EAL, once I backed up on a taxiway when BOS Ground got us nose to nose with an outbound L1011. As stated, do NOT use the brakes, just power up to stop the rearward motion.

GF
 
Max Q
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:04 am

COSPN wrote:
At CO and most other airlines 727 not authorized only DC-9. MD 80...



Interesting, I guess the hundreds of power backs I did on the 727 at Continental over the seven years I flew that aircraft were in my imagination
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:10 pm

COSPN wrote:
At CO and most other airlines 727 not authorized only DC-9. MD 80...


That's not correct. I did a powerback at CO in a 727, though only once. As I recall, it was part of IOE. I never had the need to do it during line flying, but do recall a story from a comrade who did one on a charter.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
Apprentice
Posts: 442
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Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:10 am

neomax wrote:
I know that while it is very rare for any airline to powerback anywhere these days, but it is my understanding that the practice faded not due to safety reasons, but fuel costs. That said, this was some time ago, and it's been a good decade since those days, so has the practice returned occasionally in some form?



Good Morning. I doubt it. On most engines, there is a limitation to use Engine’s Reverser when speed V< 60kts, to avoid reigestions of f.o.d...

If, for any reason, reverses were used below 60knts, a special and long check have to be perforned for every engine, losing any time’s gain.

Rgds
“An AME, with just a Mechanic Role”, as per one of our pilots
"A NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor (a wise man)
 
johnclipper
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:39 pm

EA did powerbacks with 757s too. I was on one at ATL for an ATL-EWR flight. Was "interesting"...
"Flown every aircraft since the Wright Flyer" (guys, if you take this literally, then you need to get a life...)
 
Draken21fx
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:38 am

Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:35 pm

Not US but for sure someone did it in Skiathos, Greece this summer :)

https://youtu.be/lqZ83gJc7DE?t=54s
 
nws2002
Posts: 757
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:04 pm

Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:29 pm

Sean-SAN- wrote:
Allegiant is still certified to do them but I don't think they ever happen in reality


At G4 it requires VP of Flt Ops approval to conduct powerbacks. I can only see that being allowed if they are stuck somewhere without an MD-80 pushback and/or towbar and cannot borrow one. Ground agents are no longer trained in the practice either, so it requires a briefing from the flight crew on how it works.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 4759
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Are powerbacks still done at any US airports?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:14 am

No-one does it anymore. DL never did it. AA removed it as an authorized procedure a few years ago. They stopped doing it regularly in 2005. FL stopped it in about 2005. NW stopped it in 2006.

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