serworacle
Topic Author
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:01 pm

737-800 type training advice?

Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:11 pm

Hi everyone. I just got accepted as a FO candidate for an airline company and they appointed me 737-800 fleet. It's been 2 weeks for now. Interestingly, we haven't been taught anything related to the aircraft, They have given us some free time to self study from cbt's which is not so efficient for me because I can't ask any why and what questions. They give us some lessons like meteorology etc but no systems, Fmc or start up procedures. Ok we got Fcom or operations manual but at some point we need to ask why?
As for my question, How should I study? For example, When I follow the electrical power up and start up procedures, fcom says "switch that button on and verify this light illuminates " ok I do that but why the light illuminates? I wanted to learn with the reasons. One of my friend showed me a app called cockpit companion. But it's so expensive.. (pls try not to write "you'll be a pilot and earn good money" because I am a student now:). I need this s kind of apps or documents . it may not be a app, could be a document as well. I hope you help me.. thanks in advance.
Safe flight..
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1606
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:01 pm

It really depends on which country and airline.

Each airline conducts their training differently. So you really can’t (shouldn’t) get airline specific information from anywhere (especially the internet) other than your airline.

Is this your very first airliner or do you have any previous experience flying transport category aircraft?

A lot of preflight at an airline is (at least in the US) is done by flows to ensure a standard cockpit setup for flight. This is for standardization and so that you as an FO can fly with any other captain even though you’ve never met him or her and don’t know anything about them.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
serworacle
Topic Author
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:59 pm

It's the first time so I haven't had any airline experience. As well as other company, our company has done the procedures according to flows which I follow but the problem is that while following I miss some answers which I'm looking for. Of course each airline has its own procedure flow and I know that, but what I would like to know is that when any flight crew switch something on or off, why any related lights are on or off! actuall I need panel description(aft and forward overhead,) in detailed. Like saying, if you switch that button on, this light will extinguish because of this, etc. thanks..
 
Redbellyguppy
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:57 am

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:59 pm

Cockpit companion is an invaluable resource. It's worth the investment.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2740
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:28 pm

serworacle wrote:
It's the first time so I haven't had any airline experience. As well as other company, our company has done the procedures according to flows which I follow but the problem is that while following I miss some answers which I'm looking for. Of course each airline has its own procedure flow and I know that, but what I would like to know is that when any flight crew switch something on or off, why any related lights are on or off! actuall I need panel description(aft and forward overhead,) in detailed. Like saying, if you switch that button on, this light will extinguish because of this, etc. thanks..


Who has the regulatory overisight for this airline? FAA, EASA, JAA or?
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1109
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:40 pm

 
Woodreau
Posts: 1606
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:53 am

WPvsMW wrote:
http://www.cockpitcompanion.com/


That's so cool... I bought one of those manuals from them 18 years ago. I didn't know they were still around.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1473
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:55 am

serworacle wrote:
Hi everyone. I just got accepted as a FO candidate for an airline company and they appointed me 737-800 fleet. It's been 2 weeks for now. Interestingly, we haven't been taught anything related to the aircraft, They have given us some free time to self study from cbt's which is not so efficient for me because I can't ask any why and what questions. They give us some lessons like meteorology etc but no systems, Fmc or start up procedures. Ok we got Fcom or operations manual but at some point we need to ask why?
As for my question, How should I study? For example, When I follow the electrical power up and start up procedures, fcom says "switch that button on and verify this light illuminates " ok I do that but why the light illuminates? I wanted to learn with the reasons. One of my friend showed me a app called cockpit companion. But it's so expensive.. (pls try not to write "you'll be a pilot and earn good money" because I am a student now:). I need this s kind of apps or documents . it may not be a app, could be a document as well. I hope you help me.. thanks in advance.
Safe flight..


Are you kidding? No offense but I don't want to fly on your airline your description of your training thus far is scary to say the least.
 
Redbellyguppy
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:57 am

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:59 am

All airlines have at least a few weeks of company indoc before you get to systems on your assigned aircraft. The airplane training footprint is at least a solid month beyond that.
 
Redbellyguppy
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:57 am

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:00 am

This footprint of course assumes you already know a thing or two about how airplanes work, of course...
 
barney captain
Posts: 1894
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:32 am

Redbellyguppy wrote:
Cockpit companion is an invaluable resource. It's worth the investment.


If you knew the history of the author, I would hope you would never endorse it's purchase.

Some Companions Are Bad.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
SAAFNAV
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:41 pm

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:38 pm

Obviously your company's manuals and training will take preference, but this is some guideline at least.
http://www.b737.org.uk/index.htm
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 18391
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:41 pm

You're only 2 weeks in. CBT learning is tedious but you have to start somewhere. I'd say learning the flows for normal procedures and memory procedures, as well as limitations is a good start. Practice, practice, practice your flows. It gives you a skeleton which you can then add meat to. Of course, learning the systems in depth is important but learn to crawl before you walk.

The problem you are facing seems fairly typical. There is a lot of material and you're at the point where you don't know what you don't know. The first few weeks of my airline induction are a bit of a blur to be honest. :)

My method of study: Any questions, write them down and research them. Make up more questions. Think of operational scenarios (e.g. what happens if we lose an engine just after V1). Then figure out the answers and write those down. How do failures affect other systems, operations, etc... Make your own tables and summaries and notes. These are not replacements for the manuals but organizing and writing down material helps your brain retain it.

One trainer I flew with grabbed the maintenance log and found some old entry more or less at random. He said "ok so if this bit is broken, how does it affect us if we have a low viz approach? What about limitations? What about other operational considerations?" It taught me to look at systems from a standpoint of operational considerations, not systems "in a vacuum".

The answers are in the manuals. Learning to find stuff in the manuals is an important skill and the only way to develop it is to practice.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1606
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:11 pm

barney captain wrote:
Redbellyguppy wrote:
Cockpit companion is an invaluable resource. It's worth the investment.


If you knew the history of the author, I would hope you would never endorse it's purchase.

Some Companions Are Bad.


I think the origin of the company was they catered to flight simmers that wanted to fly their Microsoft Flight Simulator as close as they could to the real world airliners.
That was how I found out about them.
If you look at their distributors, it's mostly flight sim websites/companies.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
Redbellyguppy
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:57 am

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:19 pm

Barney, I wasn't. CAL scab? In that case you can get the Boeing FRM and do much of the same for yourself. Mine was a gift from a mentor and I referred to it continuously during my type.
 
barney captain
Posts: 1894
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:21 pm

Redbellyguppy wrote:
Barney, I wasn't. CAL scab? In that case you can get the Boeing FRM and do much of the same for yourself. Mine was a gift from a mentor and I referred to it continuously during my type.


Bingo.

Just thought you would want to know.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2413
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:28 am

Unless the airline is very new they know how to get people through training. Jump through the hoops in the order they tell you to. It’s understandable that you want to get studying on systems now, but follow their recommendations. Focus on what’s in front of you and use spare time to learn flows and memory items. Once you have that then systems training will come along to explain why you’re doing what the flows and memory items have you do.

stratosphere wrote:
Are you kidding? No offense but I don't want to fly on your airline your description of your training thus far is scary to say the least.

The description sounds like every airline I’ve ever worked for. The first couple weeks are basic indoctrination. Items covered include HR stuff, legalities and company policies, even things like ordering uniforms. The airlines want you to focus on Indoc at that point in training and don’t expect or even want you getting into serious systems study at that point. Systems and actual operation of the aircraft will come later.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2740
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:30 am

I asked the OP what regulatory authority covered his airline as I could have sent him all the docs he could have possibly used and then some.. Suspect the guy is simmer and not even an airline pilot. If he can't answer a simple question like that he is in trouble already.
 
serworacle
Topic Author
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:57 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
You're only 2 weeks in. CBT learning is tedious but you have to start somewhere. I'd say learning the flows for normal procedures and memory procedures, as well as limitations is a good start. Practice, practice, practice your flows. It gives you a skeleton which you can then add meat to. Of course, learning the systems in depth is important but learn to crawl before you walk.

The problem you are facing seems fairly typical. There is a lot of material and you're at the point where you don't know what you don't know. The first few weeks of my airline induction are a bit of a blur to be honest. :)

My method of study: Any questions, write them down and research them. Make up more questions. Think of operational scenarios (e.g. what happens if we lose an engine just after V1). Then figure out the answers and write those down. How do failures affect other systems, operations, etc... Make your own tables and summaries and notes. These are not replacements for the manuals but organizing and writing down material helps your brain retain it.

One trainer I flew with grabbed the maintenance log and found some old entry more or less at random. He said "ok so if this bit is broken, how does it affect us if we have a low viz approach? What about limitations? What about other operational considerations?" It taught me to look at systems from a standpoint of operational considerations, not systems "in a vacuum".

The answers are in the manuals. Learning to find stuff in the manuals is an important skill and the only way to develop it is to practice.


Thanks for nice respond.
Uncertainty creates stress and I don't like it. But I guess it's the way how it works as you wrote. Whom I have talked so far have told me the same things like you do and @alias1024. I got your advices and will follow them.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 18391
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: 737-800 type training advice?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:25 am

It gets easier after your initial conversion but there's always a sim check, line check, conversion course or upgrade course coming up. So don't expect the stress to ever go away completely. After a while you learn to handle it, and more importantly you learn the approximate level of study and preparation that is appropriate for a given event. You want to go into checks feeling confident that you will do well.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

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