Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Woodreau wrote:At one airline (non-Airbus) pilots would only do TOGA takeoffs due to stalled contract negotiations. The bean counters probably lost more money doing more frequent engine changes than if they’d just continued negotiating.
Florianopolis wrote:Question: In general, if the airplane takes off at MTOW, or at the maximum usable weight given temperature and runway length, it will be a TOGA thrust takeoff? I'm thinking a Phoenix or Vegas transcon on a July afternoon is probably a TOGA takeoff ? In other words, you keep loading the airplane until you run out of payload, runway, or thrust? If you've maxed out runway, you're probably maxing out thrust?
BalkanBoy wrote:I know some carriers have SOP's that require TOGA thrust during inclement weather, and at specific airports/runways. I imagine that dispatch determines the optimum FLEX temp and puts it in the preflight paperwork.
DFWflightpath wrote:Wow that’s interesting. How many TOGA takeoffs would it take to impact engine wear?
Florianopolis wrote:Question: In general, if the airplane takes off at MTOW, or at the maximum usable weight given temperature and runway length, it will be a TOGA thrust takeoff? I'm thinking a Phoenix or Vegas transcon on a July afternoon is probably a TOGA takeoff ? In other words, you keep loading the airplane until you run out of payload, runway, or thrust? If you've maxed out runway, you're probably maxing out thrust?
Redbellyguppy wrote:The only thing TOGA is going to buy you is stopping margin and perhaps some fourth segment climb. That said, stopping margin is valuable if you need it.
Flow2706 wrote:BalkanBoy wrote:I know some carriers have SOP's that require TOGA thrust during inclement weather, and at specific airports/runways. I imagine that dispatch determines the optimum FLEX temp and puts it in the preflight paperwork.
Actually takeoff performance (Speeds and also FLEX temperature) is usually calculated by the crew, either by using some software on the EFB (Airbus provides a software called "FlySmart" for that purpose, but some airlines have their own software) or by using paper charts. But it is possible that the takeoff data could be calculated by dispatch and then send trough ACARS as well, but I've never flown for an airline that does it this way...you can not use FLEX on contaminated runways and when wind shear is expected.
Starlionblue wrote:With ACARS, it's not so much that dispatch calculates it for you. ACARS is just a transmission method in this context. The calculation is made by an automated remote system. You punch the numbers into the FM interface and send them via ACARS, and the system automatically returns the performance "card" via ACARS. If ACARS isn't working, the numbers can be entered and received via alternative methods such as on a web page or even SMS.
Woodreau wrote:Starlionblue wrote:With ACARS, it's not so much that dispatch calculates it for you. ACARS is just a transmission method in this context. The calculation is made by an automated remote system. You punch the numbers into the FM interface and send them via ACARS, and the system automatically returns the performance "card" via ACARS. If ACARS isn't working, the numbers can be entered and received via alternative methods such as on a web page or even SMS.
oh, you should hear the FO gnashing of teeth when ACARS isn't working. "What I have to get ATIS, PDC the old fashioned way over the radio?" Never mind trying to get performance numbers over the radio...... Oh I forgot to call our out and off times too (just as we're about to land at the destination.)
DFWflightpath wrote:Redbellyguppy wrote:The only thing TOGA is going to buy you is stopping margin and perhaps some fourth segment climb. That said, stopping margin is valuable if you need it.
Could you explain how TOGA takeoff impacts 4th segment climb (to a novice)?
Redbellyguppy wrote:DFWflightpath wrote:Redbellyguppy wrote:The only thing TOGA is going to buy you is stopping margin and perhaps some fourth segment climb. That said, stopping margin is valuable if you need it.
Could you explain how TOGA takeoff impacts 4th segment climb (to a novice)?
Sorry I meant to type in second segment climb not fourth. I was talking to my kid about something fourth grade was doing and got distracted.
Woodreau wrote:oh, you should hear the FO gnashing of teeth when ACARS isn't working. "What I have to get ATIS, PDC the old fashioned way over the radio?" Never mind trying to get performance numbers over the radio...... Oh I forgot to call our out and off times too (just as we're about to land at the destination.)
tb727 wrote:Woodreau wrote:oh, you should hear the FO gnashing of teeth when ACARS isn't working. "What I have to get ATIS, PDC the old fashioned way over the radio?" Never mind trying to get performance numbers over the radio...... Oh I forgot to call our out and off times too (just as we're about to land at the destination.)
Just had my first ACARS INOP since moving to the left seat. It was really nice not having to do radio closeout for numbers finally!
Starlionblue wrote:A few months ago we were having issues logging on to Rekyavik CPDLC and we needed our oceanic clearance. Instead of giving us two more minutes to sort the issue, Reykjavik insisted we copy the clearance by voice. Over HF! The FO had to ask them to "say again" about ten times. Oceanic clearances are looong and copying down lat/long references over a scratchy radio is not ideal.
zeke wrote:Starlionblue wrote:A few months ago we were having issues logging on to Rekyavik CPDLC and we needed our oceanic clearance. Instead of giving us two more minutes to sort the issue, Reykjavik insisted we copy the clearance by voice. Over HF! The FO had to ask them to "say again" about ten times. Oceanic clearances are looong and copying down lat/long references over a scratchy radio is not ideal.
Aren’t you an SO ? Why was the RQ doing the HF ?