MRYapproach
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Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:26 am

I did 8 trans-ocean rides on 777s in 2018. A bunch of EVA 77W, plus a couple on SWISS' brand new 77Ws. On EVA I use their terrific Elite class, for the rest it's Economy.

Last night I returned to balmy California from the frigid Northeast on United's very first 777-200: N774UA from O'Hare to SFO. It was the loudest flight I have ever taken.

Am I crazy? Or are early 777s louder? This was the very first United 777...the second ever off the line. Cool as that was, I struggled to explain to my SO why we were so lucky. She just thought it was LOUD. Did Boeing change anything from 1996 (772) to 2005 (77W) when it comes to noise level?
 
zkncj
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:31 am

Different models of the 777 have different engines, which largely effect the the cabin noise. The 77W is an much newer model, which was developed in the early 2000s hence it has newer engines.
 
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N644US
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:47 am

N774UA (the one you most recently flew) has PW4077 engines. Every 77W has the GE90-115B (it's the only engine option).

In my opinion, you're right. The Pratts have much more buzz and are overall louder. But it also has to do with where you're seated. Perhaps you were slightly closer to the engine in one seat compared to another?
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D L X
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:48 am

The old UA 777s at least are noticeably louder than any other airliner I’ve taken other than those no longer in service.
 
UA444
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:44 am

Loudest are the RR ones to me.
 
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cv990Coronado
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:26 am

Without getting into an A/B thing one often hears comments about the 777 and its noise, surely somewhere someone has used equipment to measure this scientifically?
I have flown on 777's both 200/300 with RR and GE and I found them noisy but I have always been in Y or J so never in the front. I have flown 747 in every section and find them quieter in most areas than the 777. I do find the 767 and the 787 to be quieter than the 777 as well. I have also flown on the A330 and A340 in different parts of the cabin and in my opinion they are some of the quietest aircraft especially the 340-600 up front. Does have anyone have any real data, not just perception?
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bgm
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:43 am

I find the 777s very loud, and cramped if you're in the 10-abreast in Y.

It could be the size of the engine, or Boeing being stingy with noise insulation, not sure. But yes, it is loud.
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rheinwaldner
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:49 am

This guy claims to have measured noise levels frequently:
https://talkingpointz.com/the-787-dreamliner-parts-5-6/

According to his information (and compared with the 787), the 777 is fine.
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JibberJim
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:58 am

cv990Coronado wrote:
Without getting into an A/B thing one often hears comments about the 777 and its noise, surely somewhere someone has used equipment to measure this scientifically?
Does have anyone have any real data, not just perception?


Sadly noisiness is heavily biased by perception, so whilst the noise meter will show the loudness it sees, it does not mean that an individual human will not decide that one noise is louder than another which has an identical loudness, so there'll always be perceptual difference, and why a particular engine/plane/seat combination may be a lot more annoying for one person over another.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:10 am

777 is noisy - period.
GE/RR/PW all have different "tones" but the jet remains loud. I suppose it has a lot to do with fuselage shape, exposure to the Jetstream from under the wing hitting the fuselage sides, and finally INSULATION.... or lack thereof....
 
AR385
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:14 am

I suppose it really depends where you are seated. But in general, I have not found them to be noticeably noisier. The 737sNG I find them a lot more noisier.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:01 am

MRYapproach wrote:
I did 8 trans-ocean rides on 777s in 2018. A bunch of EVA 77W, plus a couple on SWISS' brand new 77Ws. On EVA I use their terrific Elite class, for the rest it's Economy.

Last night I returned to balmy California from the frigid Northeast on United's very first 777-200: N774UA from O'Hare to SFO. It was the loudest flight I have ever taken.

Am I crazy? Or are early 777s louder? This was the very first United 777...the second ever off the line. Cool as that was, I struggled to explain to my SO why we were so lucky. She just thought it was LOUD. Did Boeing change anything from 1996 (772) to 2005 (77W) when it comes to noise level?


Sit in the back of a DC9 and then try that 777 again.... ;)
 
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scbriml
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:23 am

oldannyboy wrote:
777 is noisy - period.


In my experience it's easily the noisiest of all the widebody types. Second would be flying in the nose section of a 747.
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Waterbomber
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:29 am

deltal1011man wrote:
MRYapproach wrote:
I did 8 trans-ocean rides on 777s in 2018. A bunch of EVA 77W, plus a couple on SWISS' brand new 77Ws. On EVA I use their terrific Elite class, for the rest it's Economy.

Last night I returned to balmy California from the frigid Northeast on United's very first 777-200: N774UA from O'Hare to SFO. It was the loudest flight I have ever taken.

Am I crazy? Or are early 777s louder? This was the very first United 777...the second ever off the line. Cool as that was, I struggled to explain to my SO why we were so lucky. She just thought it was LOUD. Did Boeing change anything from 1996 (772) to 2005 (77W) when it comes to noise level?


Sit in the back of a DC9 and then try that 777 again.... ;)


I am an expert on B777 noisiness, and it's nothing that I'm proud of.
In the past two years, I've been on B772ER, B77L, B77W of TK, QR, BA, JL, probably about 20 long haul flights in total.
So yes, things are much better in J, ie in front of the engines.
In Y, the further you go to the back of the cabin, the worse it gets. The noise is mostly due to accelerated bypass air creating a very noisy wake.
If you have a window seat, you're going to be worse off than if you're between the aisles.
However, any loose trim around you is bad news. It will vibrate at a high frequency and annoy you for the entire flight. If you're sitting by the window there is a chance that you'll have some piece of the plastic trim of the window or shades that is too loose and will sound like a cricket singing by your ear the entire flight. This is most likely when seated in the area of the wing. The solution is to stuff pieces of tissue to stop the vibrations. As annoying that is for you, your seat neighbor won't hear it and neither would a stewardess standing in the aisle.

The B747 was noisy but the B777 is deafening.
In terms of noise, I would take the A380 and B787 any day over any other aircraft.
The A350 is much quieter compared to the B777 but the B787 is definitely quieter than the A350.
 
masi1157
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:50 am

rheinwaldner wrote:
This guy claims to have measured noise levels frequently:

Looks like he used the C-weighting for his "measurements". That can be a good idea when you know what you're doing, but he apparently does not. 86 dB(C) seems quite usual in an aircraft cabin in flight. But usually measurements are taken in dB(A), and that is probably what he also did himself when he found "70 - 72 dB" in other aircraft. So his numbers simply can't be compared and his statement ("5 times noisier") is nonsense.

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Flow2706
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:52 am

I flew as a passenger in 777 quite a few times and I try to avoid them exactly because of the noise (also I prefer the 2-4-2 seating in Y on the A330/340s over the 3-3-3/3-4-3 seating in the 777). The noisiest flight I can remember was on a MH 777 (I think 9M-MRA) a few years ago, I was sitting behind the wing and the noise was deafening (in addition to the engine noise there was also some whistling noise, I guess from the window seal). The engine type seems to make a difference though. Also, individual airplanes can be difference due to differences in wear. Even on the A320 flight deck there can be differences between individual aircraft (we have on IAE powered A320 in the fleet that is considerably louder than the rest of the flight during takeoff...).
 
geoshina
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:59 am

scbriml wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
777 is noisy - period.


In my experience it's easily the noisiest of all the widebody types. Second would be flying in the nose section of a 747.


I totally agree with you.

And you even get to notice this more if you connect to an B787 or an A350 afterwards.
 
uta999
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:07 pm

I wonder how successfully Boeing will address this with the 777-X, both inside and outside the aircraft.
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ap305
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:14 pm

uta999 wrote:
I wonder how successfully Boeing will address this with the 777-X, both inside and outside the aircraft.


Given that they are supposedly carving out some of the cabin to free up width, I doubt that the quieter engine will make too much of a difference.
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:35 pm

JibberJim wrote:
cv990Coronado wrote:
Without getting into an A/B thing one often hears comments about the 777 and its noise, surely somewhere someone has used equipment to measure this scientifically?
Does have anyone have any real data, not just perception?


Sadly noisiness is heavily biased by perception, so whilst the noise meter will show the loudness it sees, it does not mean that an individual human will not decide that one noise is louder than another which has an identical loudness, so there'll always be perceptual difference, and why a particular engine/plane/seat combination may be a lot more annoying for one person over another.

So far on this thread, you are the only person to mention "seats" as a factor.
It is stating the obvious, but better upholstery makes a big difference.

Indeed, I wonder if passenger clothing might be a factor too? If you are on a flight from cold location to cold location, and all the passengers are wrapped up warm in layers of clothing, maybe the sound is reduced even further?

But primarily I would look for a nice deep carpet. Something you don't often find in Y. :roll:
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Jayafe
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:55 pm

As mentioned before, not only the measurable noise is relevant, but the perception of the vibrations might have an impact in the passenger experience.
 
masi1157
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:09 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
...but better upholstery makes a big difference....passenger clothing...a nice deep carpet

All that helps a bit in the mid and high frequency range, but the effect is close to zero on low frequency engines' jet noise, which is dominant in the rear of the cabin (but only there).


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BlatantEcho
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:52 pm

Flown a lot of 777 legs now (sea-dxb, hkg-sfo, yvr-hkg). Never noticed 777 being louder than a330 which I fly the most.

Imagine it’s very subjective, especially with where you sit on the plane.

That said, with noise canceling headphones, none of it matters anyway.
 
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par13del
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:54 pm

One does wonder why with all this non-scientific evidence and in the face of the A380 and A340, Boeing with all the improvements done on the 777W since its inception has not seen fit to increase insulation, and now they are thinning the walls on the 777X?
 
aaexecplat
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:00 pm

I have flown virtually all current widebody types from both manunufacturers...and the 777 is definitely one of the noisiest airplanes in the sky. My personal (subjective) ranking from least noisy to most noisy is:

A380
A350
B787
A346/A345
A340
A330
B748
B767
B77W
B744
B772

As always ...YMMV.
 
JHwk
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:04 pm

United's early 777's are terrible; the worst spot for me was always a row or two aft of the R2 door.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:28 pm

Over the summer I flew on the an AF A343, DL’s new 242t A333, AF’s first 77E and one of AF’s latest 77W. I flew all in economy and to be honest there really wasn’t much of a difference to me. The A343 and 77E had a little bit of rattle going on but it wasn’t very loud. With all the talk on this sight about how loud the 777 is I completely disagree with others.
 
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BirdBrain
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:17 pm

My personal and unscientific observation is that the 77E was especially loud. Things get worse when it is configured to land as air noise increases dramatically. I base this on a lot of regional SQ flights which I did with them. On the flip side, I found that 77W of CX to be quiet, but these have been newer builds. I do love the startup growl of these GE90s, that is the best sound out there. Lastly, my experience on 77L is pretty much the same as 77W, because they have similar engines. I don't have too much experience on 772 or 773, but they are noisy too but less so than 77E, IMHO.
 
Andre3K
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:29 am

So the takeaway from this is that it's mostly seating, personal perception, and bias.

Kind of reminds me of the question of whether or not a certain 4 engine plane was "underpowered" or not.

This is no different, it does the mission it was designed for.
 
Max Q
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:33 am

scbriml wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
777 is noisy - period.


In my experience it's easily the noisiest of all the widebody types. Second would be flying in the nose section of a 747.


Couldn’t disagree more, the downstairs
nose section of the 747 is the quietest
cabin you can sit in
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gloom
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:51 am

Waterbomber wrote:
The A350 is much quieter compared to the B777 but the B787 is definitely quieter than the A350.


That would be definitely true on takeoff, the roar of Trents is quite loud.

However, on cruise, I managed to sleep 3/3 legs on A350, while failed to do so on 787. So, my observation would be quite opposite, A350 is quieter.

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oldannyboy
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:55 am

scbriml wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
777 is noisy - period.


In my experience it's easily the noisiest of all the widebody types. Second would be flying in the nose section of a 747.


Agree. The TriStar could be somewhat loud-ish too, and the back of a ("dirty") 767 is pretty noisy as well. DC10 & MD11 were really comfy instead, not to mention the A330/340 - now those are really flying carpets if kept in tip top shape.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:00 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
But primarily I would look for a nice deep carpet. Something you don't often find in Y. :roll:



Ahhh...bingo! you DID, even in Y...back in the olden days! Those plush, thick, soft carpets that would absorb noise and smells in equal manners!
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:08 am

Andre3K wrote:
So the takeaway from this is that it's mostly seating, personal perception, and bias.

.


Sorry, no bias here: I love the 777.
So, not to disagree for the sake of doing so, but anybody who has flown a lot will have to agree that the 777 is a loud aircraft, no doubt quite a bit louder than an A330, even taking into consideration average/general condition of the airframe, age, configuration, carpeting etc... It's a pretty obvious fact. Just ask any flight attendant who flies regularly on both types, and see what they will say. Then again, I love the 777 - it has terrific looks, a wide, comfortable interior, it has amazing performance, but.... it's noisy. Fact. Or -if you prefer- it's noisi-er than other WBs.
 
Flow2706
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:39 am

Andre3K wrote:
So the takeaway from this is that it's mostly seating, personal perception, and bias.

Kind of reminds me of the question of whether or not a certain 4 engine plane was "underpowered" or not.

This is no different, it does the mission it was designed for.

This is a different story - the "underpowered" aspect does not affect passengers in any way, in fact they won't even notice and as you said it gets to job done and is certified (so no big deal at all). However noise levels in the cabin can be a big issue for passengers, especially on a wide body where everybody tries to get a bit of sleep...
 
Andre3K
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:13 pm

Flow2706 wrote:
Andre3K wrote:
So the takeaway from this is that it's mostly seating, personal perception, and bias.

Kind of reminds me of the question of whether or not a certain 4 engine plane was "underpowered" or not.

This is no different, it does the mission it was designed for.

This is a different story - the "underpowered" aspect does not affect passengers in any way, in fact they won't even notice and as you said it gets to job done and is certified (so no big deal at all). However noise levels in the cabin can be a big issue for passengers, especially on a wide body where everybody tries to get a bit of sleep...


And yet that has not stopped airlines from ordering it in droves since it's introduction. Since when is passenger comfort a driving force behind airline buying decisions?
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:17 pm

Andre3K wrote:
Since when is passenger comfort a driving force behind airline buying decisions?


Since passengers can vote with their wallets?
 
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Web500sjc
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:27 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Andre3K wrote:
Since when is passenger comfort a driving force behind airline buying decisions?


Since passengers can vote with their wallets?

and passengers overwhelming vote for cheaper prices with their wallet
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badgervor
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:39 pm

MRYapproach wrote:
I did 8 trans-ocean rides on 777s in 2018


You flew trans-ocean 8 times in 9 days? That's crazy ;)
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:43 pm

MRYapproach wrote:
I did 8 trans-ocean rides on 777s in 2018.


WOW! And it's only the 9th of January... :duck:

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CRJ900
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:08 pm

I always assumed it was because the 777 engines are huge and produces a lot of thrust, therefore they make more noise. All other aircraft have smaller engines with less thrust which rumbles less... or is that overly simplified on my part? :)
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Andre3K
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:56 am

Web500sjc wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
Andre3K wrote:
Since when is passenger comfort a driving force behind airline buying decisions?


Since passengers can vote with their wallets?

and passengers overwhelming vote for cheaper prices with their wallet


Bingo.

It doesn't matter what the small percentage of Avgeek's want, the majority want cheap seats, they don't care if its loud, and don't care about diminishing space so much that they avoid flying. And even if premium passengers might have some clout they aren't the end all be all.

Want quiet? Either ride a newer plane or put on headphones.
 
masi1157
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:22 am

CRJ900 wrote:
I always assumed it was because the 777 engines are huge and produces a lot of thrust, therefore they make more noise. All other aircraft have smaller engines with less thrust which rumbles less... or is that overly simplified on my part? :)

It is not the thrust alone that produces noise. It has a lot to do with the air velocities of core and bypass flow, the way they mix with the ambient air, the distance of the jet from the fuselage and how well that mixing noise is transmitted through the fuselage, insulation, lining into the cabin. And that is only the jet noise part of it, which is rather dominant in the rear cabin but not elsewhere. The various B777s I experienced were quite ok with jet noise, but they were not with noise from the turbulent boundary layer (some people call it "wind noise") and the air conditioning system.


Gruß, masi1157
494 different segments on 97 airlines to 205 airports in 54 countries
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:58 am

CRJ900 wrote:
I always assumed it was because the 777 engines are huge and produces a lot of thrust, therefore they make more noise. All other aircraft have smaller engines with less thrust which rumbles less... or is that overly simplified on my part? :)


One driver for the really big modern fans is lower noise. Given the same thrust, accelerating lots of air comparatively little with a big fan makes way less noise than accelerating a small amount of air a lot with a small fan, or even worse, a turbojet.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
stratosphere
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:03 am

The only 777 I have been on has been a freighter and I sat right beside the L1 door. I didn't find the noise any worse then any other plane I have been on. These were GE90's tho. But remember it is a huge engine so I wouldn't be surprised if it carried a bit more noise.
 
masi1157
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:52 am

I am quite sure you don't hear much engine noise up front at door 1. What you hear there should mostly be TBL noise, at least during cruise. During T/O and climb it might be different. But I have to admit I never saw a B777 freighter from inside.


Gruß, masi1157
494 different segments on 97 airlines to 205 airports in 54 countries
 
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Nomadd
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:05 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
Sit in the back of a DC9 and then try that 777 again.... ;)

I was always surprised they didn't offer hearing protection for those DC9 seats where the engine was about three feet from your head.
 
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notaxonrotax
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Re: Are 777s always this loud?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:04 am

Same here......777 is loud!
Sat up front, in the back; B772, B77W, different airlines......loud!

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