Deltabravo1123
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Different Winglets on CRJs

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:13 pm

I've always wondered why the different CRJ sizes have different winglets from one another. The -200, -700/705, and -900/1000 each have their unique designs for wingtip devices. Each plane was designed during different timespans, so I imagine that's probably the reason why they differ - advancements in technology and research. But why did they not incorporate the newer looking winglets onto the -700/705? The design of the -200 is much too old that the cost of retrofitting and restructuring the wing is most likely not worth the cost, but I imagine the -700 could benefit from such a retrofit... The -700 and -900/1000 seem to be closer in design and construction, and were designed after the -200, so I wonder why they never decided to do so.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:16 pm

Well the -705 is just a capacity restricted -900. The newer winglets on the latest CRJs are from the “next gen” package of improvements only found on aircraft built after a certain point. Older -900s will have the older winglets also. To my knowledge there hasn’t been a -700 built in quite some time so i don’t know if we will ever see one with the new winglets as it’s not retrofittable it seems.
 
alasizon
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:21 pm

There are two CRJ sets of winglets on the 700/900; the NextGen and non-NextGen. The original builds that were non-NextGen are easily identifiable by the fact the winglets are almost straight up and down just like the CRJ-200. Then came the NextGen winglets which are at about a 25 degree angle.
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wrongwayup
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:31 pm

alasizon wrote:
There are two CRJ sets of winglets on the 700/900; the NextGen and non-NextGen. The original builds that were non-NextGen are easily identifiable by the fact the winglets are almost straight up and down just like the CRJ-200. Then came the NextGen winglets which are at about a 25 degree angle.


While you're correct that there are two types of winglets for the 900, the change was done well before the "NextGen" package. They were done as part of a CRJ900 "EPP" (Enhanced Performance Package) earlier in the program.
 
alasizon
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:08 pm

wrongwayup wrote:
alasizon wrote:
There are two CRJ sets of winglets on the 700/900; the NextGen and non-NextGen. The original builds that were non-NextGen are easily identifiable by the fact the winglets are almost straight up and down just like the CRJ-200. Then came the NextGen winglets which are at about a 25 degree angle.


While you're correct that there are two types of winglets for the 900, the change was done well before the "NextGen" package. They were done as part of a CRJ900 "EPP" (Enhanced Performance Package) earlier in the program.


Do you know of any aircraft that are not part of the NextGen package that received the newer winglets? I've never seen any.
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asqx
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:19 pm

alasizon wrote:
Do you know of any aircraft that are not part of the NextGen package that received the newer winglets? I've never seen any.


The lengthened winglets and other changes first appeared in 2005, the NextGen didn't show up until 2007. Starting around L/N 15036 (the first 705) and running until L/N 15129 the planes have the original cabin but newer winglets. Oddly enough for a while at least both were offered as Mesa kept the original winglets up through L/N 15056.
 
alasizon
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:19 pm

asqx wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Do you know of any aircraft that are not part of the NextGen package that received the newer winglets? I've never seen any.


The lengthened winglets and other changes first appeared in 2005, the NextGen didn't show up until 2007. Starting around L/N 15036 (the first 705) and running until L/N 15129 the planes have the original cabin but newer winglets. Oddly enough for a while at least both were offered as Mesa kept the original winglets up through L/N 15056.


Funny, I could have sworn 951LR (LN 15123) had the NextGen cabin but you're right, it doesn't.
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lostsound
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:27 pm

All of AC Jazz's CRJ-705s have the latest winglet, first delivered in May 2005.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Cana ... 5/836858/L
 
LH707330
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:29 am

So let me get this straight: the 700 and 900 both started out with the steep winglets, then both went to the more canted ones in 2005ish?
 
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asqx
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:36 am

LH707330 wrote:
So let me get this straight: the 700 and 900 both started out with the steep winglets, then both went to the more canted ones in 2005ish?


No, the 700s never switched and all have the same winglets. Early 900s shared the same winglet as the 700. Starting in 2005 Bombardier started building 900s with modified wings and winglets that extended further outward. The 705 (which is a 900 certified to a lower passenger capacity) also features the newer style winglets.
 
LH707330
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:15 am

Got it, thanks. Any specific reason they didn't switch the 700?
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:11 pm

LH707330 wrote:
Any specific reason they didn't switch the 700?


BBD probably figured out that the resulting additional CRJ700's sales would not have covered the additional certification process costs.

Furthermore, "legacy" 700 operators would probably have sticked to the old winglets anyways, for communality of procedures / maintenance / manuals / training etc - like Mesa did for their legacy 900s.

Finally, the 70 seaters (economy) RJ market was already dying back then. Scope clauses permitted 76 seaters (dual class), so the CRJ705 (a 900 version) was the better seller.
 
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asqx
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:03 pm

LH707330 wrote:
Got it, thanks. Any specific reason they didn't switch the 700?


In addition to what was mentioned above, it's not just different winglets. There were other changes made to the wing to increase performance along with the new winglets which, given the lower weights, probably weren't needed on the 700.
 
LH707330
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:40 pm

Ah, that makes sense, thanks for the explanations.
 
CRJ900
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Re: Different Winglets on CRJs

Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:11 pm

As wrongwayup wrote, the new winglets came in 2005 as one of several improvements with the Enhanced Performance Package (EPP).

Mesa is the only operator of CR9 with the CR7 winglet. Macedonian had one aircraft but that was scrapped several years ago.

The EPP launched the -LR version with MTOW 38,330 kg / 84,500 lbs, slat optimization, improved take-off and landing distances due to reprogramming of slat and flap setting, and new wing tip extension and new winglet with increased outboard cant which reduces drag in cruise, gives better airfield performance and reduces fuel burn by 1%.
Source: BBD Regional Update, March 2005.

The CRJ1000 has a 1,33 metre wingspan extension compared to the CRJ900 but the winglets are the same.
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