Bozk
Topic Author
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:02 pm

Is it hazardous for safety to do the checklists digitally

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:05 pm

Hello,

I have recently completed an aviation psychology course of 40 hours. Many topics related to the issue were discussed throughout this training and one of them was safety issues due to lacking situational awareness and defects of habits.

The instructor said some pilots start not actually observing the state of the buttons and switches as they do the same check lists hundreds of times but they just look towards the buttons and there is a cognitive problem due to routines.

I thought could it be better if pilots would do the checklists on an lcd display instead of moving their heads and checking the buttons. I mean this looks even more monotonous but at least their focus will be on the screen and they will clearly see what's written there.

A guy from the class said what I offered in fact was currently used in new generation fighter aircrafts and he added some older pilots were struggling catching up with this high tec developments.

What is your opinion? Which one is better?
Last edited by Bozk on Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 13125
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Is it hazardous for safety do the checklists digitally

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:08 pm

The issue is checklists being ignored. I've watched my checklists that are budgeted for 5 minutes of time completed in seconds (operator not realizing I wrote the checklist as I watched). I was dumbfounded... It doesn't matter if it is paper or digital. People get tired of doing repetitive tasks.

That is why you need software to check.
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3423
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: Is it hazardous for safety to do the checklists digitally

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:04 am

Bozk wrote:
I thought could it be better if pilots would do the checklists on an lcd display instead of moving their heads and checking the buttons. I mean this looks even more monotonous but at least their focus will be on the screen and they will clearly see what's written there.
You mean using a digital checklist instead of a paper checklist? That already exists on the more modern jets. And I do not see how that would make the job of "checklisting" any different.

As for checklists not giving the expected results, it's a known problem. In fact, there's a name for it: confirmation bias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Fortunately, it does not happen often, but obvioulsy it does happen from time to time. Anytime someone lands without their landing gear deployed, or lines up on the wrong runway or even the taxiway.... or any of a million other easily avoidable cock-ups.
Attamottamotta!
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17952
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Is it hazardous for safety to do the checklists digitally

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:51 am

Yes, as lightsaber says, "you need software to check", which is one of the reasons electronic checklists are taking over. They certainly take some of the potential errors out, but but you can't sense everything. The aircraft has no way of knowing whether your briefing was done, or if you set the QNH to the correct value.


The 777, 787, 350 and many other airliners already have self-sensing electronic checklists. Example: On the 350 the after take-off checklist is:
- Landing Gear - Up
- Flaps - Retracted
- Packs - On
All those items are sensed by the aircraft. So the checklist is already "checked off" if you haven't missed anything. The PF will call "after take-off checklist". The PM will bring the checklist up on the MFD, check the complete box and say "checklist complete".
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: Is it hazardous for safety to do the checklists digitally

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:13 pm

When you do checklists on airliners these days you’re not supposed to look at switch positions anyway because the switch only commands. You have to verify on the screens that what you commanded was actually accomplished.

For example the parking brake, is a physical switch, but you can’t rely on the physical position of the switch to verify that the parking brake is set. You’re supposed to look at the screen for “PARKING BRAKE”. If you set the parking brake but don’t see “PARKING BRAKE” then the parking brake is not set.

Before landing the landing checklist automatically displays below 2000 FT on the radar altimeter. verification of the landing checklist is complete is simply looking at the screen and stating “LANDING NO BLUE” any blue items on the 4 items on the screen are immediately apparent. Usually the offender is Spoilers (in green) and Not Armed (in blue) everything else is in green indicating the items on the checklist is complete.

In terms of ergonomics, Embraer is the worst. On every other airliner, Boeing, Airbus, McDonnel-Douglas, Canadair. On the flight control panel controlling the autopilot, the airspeed knob is on the left, the heading knob is in the middle and the altitude knob is on the right.

On an Embraer the heading knob is on the left, the airspeed knob is in the middle and the altitude knob is on the right.
So I see more than one pilot coming from Embraers grabbing the wrong knob for heading or airspeed from time to time when transitioning over to the airbus.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 11438
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Is it hazardous for safety to do the checklists digitally

Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:11 pm

Woodreau wrote:
When you do checklists on airliners these days you’re not supposed to look at switch positions anyway because the switch only commands. You have to verify on the screens that what you commanded was actually accomplished.

For example the parking brake, is a physical switch, wbut you can’t rely on the physical position of the switch to verify that the parking brake is set. You’re supposed to look at the screen for “PARKING BRAKE”. If you set the parking brake but don’t see “PARKING BRAKE” then the parking brake is not set.


That is very sage advice, the parking brake switch sends a command down to the wheel well, only if the valve is closed in the wheel well you get the park brake on in the lower EWD. If the park brake switch is set to off and the valve is closed, the EWD will say park brake on.

But far more important between the FCU-MCDU and the FMA
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Faro, RJMAZ, WIederling and 25 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos