AirbusMDCFAN
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Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:56 am

link/source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homeland-s ... -jetliner/



"There's some unsettling news about one of America's most widely-used jetliners. "

"In a test, experts working with Homeland Security hacked into a Boeing 757. The team of researchers needed only two days in September 2016 to remotely hack into a 757 parked at the airport in Atlantic City, New Jersey. "

"Speaking at a conference this week, Robert Hickey of the Department of Homeland Security said his team used "typical stuff that could get through security" and hacked into the aircraft systems using "radio frequency communications."

"The 757 hasn't been in production since 2004, but the aging workhorse is still flown by major airlines like United, Delta and American," said Mark Rosenker, the former chair of the National Transportation Safety Board."
 
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:31 am

With airliners like the A350, 787 and 777x coming into service, I wonder if the growing use of in flight internet and communications for the both the passengers and systems is going to be the next open door to terrorists or other people with malicious minds.
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.
 
WIederling
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:39 am

What did they really achieve?

Much more Karma for hacking a 787 :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
mmo
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:15 am

It would be very interesting to see just what and where they hacked into. The FMS is isolated from the rest of the aircraft. There is the ARCARS link but I am not familiar with how it is currently interfaced with the FMS. Any updates or changes to the database are loaded via a floppy (3.5"). So, I am at a loss to see just what they got access to when they hacked the system.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
BravoOne
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:04 pm

Sorry but this sounds like a load od BS. As MMO said, what did they hack into, especially sitting idle on the ground? More fake news. When I see this reported on AvWeek I'll take it with a grain of salt. Probably a case of reporter filing a story with zero knowledge off avaition, much less 757 avionics
 
Woodreau
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:46 pm

Computers on an aircraft are very rudimentary - less computing power than a 1990s era 80286. They don’t have broad access to the entire aircraft. Even if they were able to gain access it wouldnt be to very much as all the computers are separate and yes they do talk to one another but there is no one central computer which controls everything it would be like each computer is more like a separate muscle in your body.

The article I feel is trying to sensationalize something for ratings and web clicks.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
7673mech
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:24 am

When I first read the article it was clearly poorly written and the quoted DHS member didn't sound like he knew what he was talking about. The article also loosely alluded to the fact that one could access critical systems through the WiFi system. This is not possible.
 
7673mech
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:26 am

The classified DHS testing followed a 2015 incident where a passenger told the FBI he had gained control of a plane's engine by hacking into the airline's in-flight entertainment system.

.... That from article .... Impossible.
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:25 pm

Jeez. What crap. Hack the wifi and IFE all you like on 757/767. Does nothing to the airplane.
 
cj000
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:28 am

My thought is that the "hack" is more like tampering with inputs that would come from a ground station, for instrument landing or the like (Die Hard 2 anyone?). Still concerning, but only in very, very specific scenarios.

Do keep in mind, although systems may be separate, if there is even one data feed in our out, given enough time (think tier 6, nation state level), things can be done.

The bigger worry to me is the 787, due to it's tightly networked systems...
 
kalvado
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:31 am

cj000 wrote:
My thought is that the "hack" is more like tampering with inputs that would come from a ground station, for instrument landing or the like (Die Hard 2 anyone?). Still concerning, but only in very, very specific scenarios.

Do keep in mind, although systems may be separate, if there is even one data feed in our out, given enough time (think tier 6, nation state level), things can be done.

The bigger worry to me is the 787, due to it's tightly networked systems...

Interestingly enough, if you look to those publications - they say literally that "unlike 350 and 787, which were designed with data security in mind, older ones like 757..."
 
Flighty
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:01 pm

With near zero knowledge, I would think the new airplanes are more vulnerable than the old, because they have integrated electrical systems that, at some level, are data/internet enabled, for example engines calling home. New cars are like this too. They have an integrated main computer system, with 1 set of wiring, very commonly also connected to the internet. It takes engineering and good testing to prove that it cannot be hacked via internet. And periodic updates, because face it, they still can be hacked via internet and exploits do occur.
 
cj000
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:25 am

At least for public info, an old but quick search:

http://www.aviationtoday.com/2005/06/01 ... next-step/

Specifically this:

Collins also developed the "core network" for the 787 and subsequent retrofits. This system houses multiple file servers and supports both cabin and flightdeck applications. A firewall in the core network cabinet isolates lower-criticality, cabin applications from higher-criticality, flightdeck systems.

Now, don't take my word for it. Being one misconfiguration (or exploit/bad password) away from merging cabin and flight deck systems is terrifying. The systems should be physically separate and not interconnected.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:20 am

cj000 wrote:
At least for public info, an old but quick search:

http://www.aviationtoday.com/2005/06/01 ... next-step/

Specifically this:

Collins also developed the "core network" for the 787 and subsequent retrofits. This system houses multiple file servers and supports both cabin and flightdeck applications. A firewall in the core network cabinet isolates lower-criticality, cabin applications from higher-criticality, flightdeck systems.

Now, don't take my word for it. Being one misconfiguration (or exploit/bad password) away from merging cabin and flight deck systems is terrifying. The systems should be physically separate and not interconnected.


The 350 is similar in concept. Various networked applications (yes they're called that) running on virtual servers and sharing physical servers. Pressurisation app, toilet flushing app (this is apparently a thing), climate control app and dozens of other functions... Only a very few critical systems like flight control and FADEC have dedicated computers. One big advantage is that if one physical server goes down, the apps are running redundantly on other physical servers, and can be started up on other physical servers to maintain redundancy. Basically virtual machine architecture as seen in data centers.

I don't think there's much choice in connecting cockpit and cabin. They were connected even in the previous generation of aircraft, though not to the current degree. We have to be able to use the intercom and PA from the cockpit, for one thing. Then there's satcom which works both in cabin and cockpit. The seat belt switch which at the far end gives an input to the IFE showing "get yer seatbelt on, dude..." or something like that. The door status indications have to come into the cockpit from the cabin, and that feeds into the pressurisation system as well as the display system.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
speedbird52
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Re: Experts working with Homeland Security hacked into Boeing 757

Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:12 am

This sounds like a load of BS. That reporter has likely never seen a 757 cockpit if they think hacking into a 757 could be in anyway productive.
"I have control" Three Words That Could Have Saved Lives.

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