JamesCousins
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Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:30 pm

Through recent scouring of plane seat plans for future holiday bookings, I noticed that a couple of Thomas Cook's A330s take advantage of the downstairs toilet option offered on the A330/A340. If this frees up so much more space for seats and galleys, reducing queuing in the isles and providing a superior pax ex, why haven't more airlines taken advantage of this on their widebodies, and why hasn't this subsequently been offered on more aircraft types?

Is the cargo space just more valuable than passenger seats from a revenue perspective or what?
 
MD88CLE
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:41 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
Is the cargo space just more valuable than passenger seats from a revenue perspective or what?


In addition, I would imagine that the stairs would take up considerable room on both decks resulting in a greater loss of space overall for not that much gain. I'd also imagine there's extra weight associated with the option.
 
vadodara
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:42 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
Through recent scouring of plane seat plans for future holiday bookings, I noticed that a couple of Thomas Cook's A330s take advantage of the downstairs toilet option offered on the A330/A340. If this frees up so much more space for seats and galleys, reducing queuing in the isles and providing a superior pax ex, why haven't more airlines taken advantage of this on their widebodies, and why hasn't this subsequently been offered on more aircraft types?

Is the cargo space just more valuable than passenger seats from a revenue perspective or what?


I have flown a LH A340 with this configuration. Actually, on long haul flights, IMHO it improves the passenger comfort level sooo much.

Perhaps, as you stated, cargo is more valuable than those pesky passengers. So why bother!
 
Antarius
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:55 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
Is the cargo space just more valuable than passenger seats from a revenue perspective or what?


Yup.
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airbazar
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:13 pm

Cargo is not usually more valuable than passengers and besides that would be an issue only if carrying large volume cargo instead of the more typical higher density cargo. Stairs (and narrow ones at that) pose a problem to some passengers and in general, passengers don't like. There's a reason why there's never a line for the lower deck lavs. Main deck lavs would still be required for those passengers that can't use stairs. And I suspect that the needed stairs add weight and complexity. In a nutshell that's my guess as to why we don't see it more often.
 
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LAXdenizen
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:30 pm

Is the Thomas Cook a330/340 toilets in Y?

I would view the inclusion of a downstairs toilet to be a passenger-first amenity, and would value such an airline higher, particularly if it was offered in Y. I would pay more to be on such an aircraft/ airline. I find the passenger cabin to be much happier on flights (particularly WN) when most everyone is being equitably treated with respect to seating choice, overhead bins and checked bags. I fly Y exclusively.

My family and I made a conscious choice to avoid UA after our last transcontinental (and shredding our United card) flight based on the poor flight experience, which I find to be a direct result of the revenue-generating mechanisms . . . "choices" - as UA would claim, at play.
 
ubeema
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:27 pm

Stairs discriminate passengers with disabilities. So OEM have to provide accomodation on main deck thus making the stairs burdensome.
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:04 pm

ubeema wrote:
Stairs discriminate passengers with disabilities.


Now now, I'm sure the stairs aren't doing it on purpose. Perhaps its just the way they were raised.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:18 pm

One handicapped accessible toilet on the main deck and most of them below would be fine with me. Many of us would appreciate the brief exercise of going up and down a set of stairs. Standing or walking is my preferred posture when awake.
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rlwynn
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:29 pm

I do not see how the stairs would add weight. The floor, seats, and people in the seats if the stairs were not there for sure weigh more than the stairs.
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HELyes
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:02 pm

A couple of years back on Helsinki-Phuket a Thomas Cook Scandinavia A332 had five toilets downstairs and one(?) on the main deck. I found it great but the flight had many families with little kids and elderly people who seemingly were not as pleased, the stairs were rather steep.

Image
(airlinereporter.com)
 
Cunard
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:04 pm

So another thread about downstairs toilets on aircraft, what from the numerous previous threads regarding this subject did know one understand!
 
DaveFly
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:17 am

I’ve only flown once with a lower-deck toilet — Lufthansa A-340-600.

To my amusement (and horror), the flush is so powerful that it’s a good thing I stood up before pressing the button. If you’re male, you could lose some very important equipment!

Then I cut my hand badly on a sharp plastic point in the stairwell. I know this is not exclusive to downstairs toilets/LH/340s, but it just wasn’t a great experience.
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69bug
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:45 am

On the 340-600, this was a very long fuselage and even with lower deck toilets, galley and crew rest there was more than enough space for cargo.

This airplane was designed for long journeys and it was expected that it would not be operating at MAX ZFW for the most part. Basically this means you would hit your max payload before you ran out of usable volume. Rather than fly empty ULD positions LH decided to kick the aforementioned items downstairs freeing up more space for passengers.

The older generation of aircraft with lower-deck galleys (L-1011 and DC-10) were basically ways to get more pax on board. Those airlines which ordered planes with lower-deck galleys typically were not big cargo players.

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VSMUT
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Re: Downstairs Plane Toilets: Why So Little Adoption?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:48 am

DaveFly wrote:
I’ve only flown once with a lower-deck toilet — Lufthansa A-340-600.

To my amusement (and horror), the flush is so powerful that it’s a good thing I stood up before pressing the button. If you’re male, you could lose some very important equipment!


My friend, you just used the equipment incorrectly! The flush merely helps excavate your bowels in a hasty manner through powerful suction! :duck:

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