uta999
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:10 pm

Should major airports like LHR be doing more to encourage airlines to only fly their newest quietest fleet there?

While there are slow improvements, such as the 787, A350, 77X and NEOs etc, it will be many years before any noticeable difference in noise over the whole day.

Perhaps more could be done with pricing by a/c type.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:48 pm

From memory the LHR quota system encourages this as it's being shrunk every year and the airport is legally required to stop flights for the day once the quota is filled.

It's less a question for airports and more a question for local and central governments to put in regulations that encourage it.

You also run into the question of what happens to aircraft that are x noisy when doing a normal approach or y noisy when doing a most efficient gliding apprach with engines idling.

Personally I think the longer term option is making sure airports are purchasing the land under the flightpaths so that no one ends up living under the noisest bits. Put commercial stuff there instead and the problem should essentially disappear. Pretty difficult to do with many modern airports in suburban areas I know.
 
ChrisKen
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:15 pm

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:12 pm

LHR is H24.
Although flights during prescribed 'unsociable' hours are subject to a points system.
The noisier the aircraft the more points.
Points = fines for airlines and/or airport after a certain point thresholds. Thresholds basically end up creating a mock 'curfew' with the exception of a small handful of scheduled flight arrivals during those hours and a dozen or so late arrivals allowed within them.
Airlines could theoretically operate during unsociable hours as they wish but with the points system and accompanying 'fines' it would be, extremely uneconomical.
 
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PatrickZ80
Posts: 1465
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:22 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Put commercial stuff there instead and the problem should essentially disappear.


Even that could be difficult.

I remember some commercial on the Dutch television a few years back for an insurance company about a company that bought a brand new good looking office building. They put up a call center on the top floor. Then suddenly a plane comes flying over very low and it appears they're located right on final approach for an airport. The planes are so noisy the call center employees have to plug their ears with their fingers each time a plane flies over.

Of course, planes are not that noisy anymore today. I once saw an interview with someone living in the proximity of Amsterdam airport and he said that he's not bothered at all by the average planes that land there. According to him you hardly hear them. However, there's one freighter that takes off each night in the middle of the night and that's very noisy. It wakes him up every night and disrupts his sleeping pattern. According to him, those planes should be banned and certainly at night. I have to say I agree with him, the average plane today is silent enough. You hear them of course, but it's not that disrupting. You can just carry on a normal conversation if a plane flies by. However the noisy ones should be banned. Then it's up to the airline what they do about it. Put another more silent plane on the route, shift their operations to another time of the day or give up the destination alltogether.
 
speedbird217
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:27 pm

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:37 pm

LHR already has a very high proportion of quiet aircraft like A350, A380 and B787.

Whenever people complain about noise they should think back a while - anyone remember Concorde?

Planes were never as quiet as today - I live about 5 miles straight below the final for 27L and yes, you can hear planes. I knew that when I moved there and it doesn't bother me. There are many sounds that annoy me far more than a plane flying over...
 
bennett123
Posts: 7822
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:49 pm

What are the noisiest aircraft flying from LHR?.
 
KingOrGod
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:16 pm

uta999 wrote:
While there are slow improvements


Umm I consider todays improvements seriously dramatic in comparison to the B732 which was flying not a whole long time ago... Guess it's perspective. But the likes of the A320NEO, A350 etc are positively quiet in comparison to those low-bypass JT8's...

People need to learn not to moan so much... Same here in Germany. Aviation is simply a soft target. Why are trains, for instance, not forced to run silently after 2300??????
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2236
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:39 pm

uta999 wrote:

While there are slow improvements,



No, there have been major improvements over the last 30 years or so.

I live about 5 miles North East of LAS, sitting in my back yard I can tell you when an MD-80 is starting it's take off roll, anything else is a none issue.


speedbird217 wrote:
Whenever people complain about noise they should think back a while - anyone remember Concorde?

Planes were never as quiet as today - I live about 5 miles straight below the final for 27L and yes, you can hear planes. I knew that when I moved there and it doesn't bother me. There are many sounds that annoy me far more than a plane flying over...


Yep, Concorde or a VC10taking off brings back childhood memories, lot's of noise and in the case of the VC10 smoke.

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

Personally I think the longer term option is making sure airports are purchasing the land under the flightpaths so that no one ends up living under the noisest bits. Put commercial stuff there instead and the problem should essentially disappear. Pretty difficult to do with many modern airports in suburban areas I know.


While I am personally against the idea of buying a piece of property from someone who bought it knowing there was an airport next door, I can understand the motivation to make the problem "go away", instead of commercial though, why not go for park land ? Use it as a buffer, sure (in the case of LHR) it is extremely valuable land being taken out of the market place, but it would also take care off a lot of problems.
 
bendewire
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:26 pm

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:39 pm

I find the whole airport/noise issue irritating. Most homes around Heathrow and Gatwick were built after the airport was, the people demand houses around airports due to the jobs and industry an airport generates, besides this I think the last numbers available some 89% of the population within a 5 mile radius of Heathrow have moved there after 1975. Would you move next to a sewage farm and expect to smell Roses? Crawley only exists because of Gatwick yet the opponents to the second runway again moved there after the airport was built.
It would be interesting to find out how many anti airport activists and their friends and relatives have actually have flown from or to the above mentioned airports. Hypocrisy rules!
 
shankly
Posts: 1269
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:47 pm

I used to live 15m from the end of 27R getting the Westerly Atlantic, South American, Spanish and Portuguese departures and a nice steady flow of everything when 09L was in use for arrivals

I now live in Cape Town and if the wind is from the North get to see the daily BA and LH arrival and if from the South the same in reverse with the odd AF and KLM if I am up late enough

...I miss LHR!
L1011 - P F M
 
parapente
Posts: 1799
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:11 pm

Living in western central London in a Georgian house I can assure you it was here before the airport!Or indeed the swathes Victorian and Edwardian and other houses!But is of no matter if you choose to live under the flight path then you put up with it -full stop.
Having said that..
I believe that the third runway should be 'traded' for a stronger night curfew if only to ensure children get a decent nights sleep.

What else?
I think they are investigating a steeper glide slope for landing (not certain)
And yes they should incentivise the retiring of the noisiest aircraft (which sadly points at the 744)
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 4402
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:13 pm

Here was a plan, no results published I can find of the outcome.

http://your.heathrow.com/heathrow-launc ... uce-noise/
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
bendewire
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:26 pm

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:24 pm

Western Central London is not within a 5 Mile radius! I was born in Southall, runway 05 directly in line with Bedroom (B707, TU124, Caravelles, Tridents, Brittania's, IL18, DC6/7 all at around 1500ft) moved to Feltham now we had Concord, B727,B737, DC9, early B747 and not once did I know of any resident close by who whinged, this was before double glazing and arrivals 24/7 jeez
 
bennett123
Posts: 7822
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:48 pm

By the time the new runway is built, how many B747-400 will still be flying into LHR.
 
bennett123
Posts: 7822
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: London Heathrow noise

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:52 pm

As an example, BA had 51 in 2010, and 36 now.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2405
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: London Heathrow noise

Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:20 am

Kew Gardens is under the approximation path to LHR.
Great place to see nature, do plane spotting and compare different aircraft noise.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 4402
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: London Heathrow noise

Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:37 am

And they do a very nice afternoon tea next door.

https://www.theoriginalmaidsofhonour.co.uk/
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
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DrPaul
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: London Heathrow noise

Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:42 pm

speedbird217 wrote:
LHR already has a very high proportion of quiet aircraft like A350, A380 and B787. Whenever people complain about noise they should think back a while - anyone remember Concorde? Planes were never as quiet as today - I live about 5 miles straight below the final for 27L and yes, you can hear planes. I knew that when I moved there and it doesn't bother me. There are many sounds that annoy me far more than a plane flying over...


Well said, sir! I'm not particularly sympathetic towards those who complain about aeroplane noise. I was born and spent the first 15 years of my life under the approach for Heathrow's then 28L (now 27L), and now live under one of the departure routes when the wind is in the east, and I agree that aeroplanes are much quieter now. When a Boeing 787 or Airbus A350 goes over, it can hardly be heard. The planes I knew as a kid were far noisier, even little ones such as the BAC-111, which really made a racket: compare one of them with an Airbus A320 or a modern Boeing 737. When the Airbus A380 is compared with the Boeing 707, it is a lot quieter not merely in an absolute manner, but also and especially in a relative manner, when its size is taken into account.

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