BravoOne
Posts: 2262
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Aircraft yokes are an ergonomic disaster

Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:45 pm

fightforlove wrote:
Well we're going to be seeing yokes for a while still on Boeing aircraft thanks to pilots unions and Southwest Airlines.



Pilot unions and SWA? Now there is a new one. You should be more concerned about the Single Pilot concept that Boeing is actively working on right now. That will probably eliminate this issue one and for all.
 
mmo
Posts: 1206
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Aircraft yokes are an ergonomic disaster

Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:15 pm

BravoOne wrote:
fightforlove wrote:
Well we're going to be seeing yokes for a while still on Boeing aircraft thanks to pilots unions and Southwest Airlines.



Pilot unions and SWA? Now there is a new one. You should be more concerned about the Single Pilot concept that Boeing is actively working on right now. That will probably eliminate this issue one and for all.



Working on it and having it certified for 121 ops are two very different things!
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2262
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Aircraft yokes are an ergonomic disaster

Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:37 pm

Yea... that's what they said about the radio operator , navigator, flight engineer, and single pilot IFR + any number of unthinkable practices. Not sayin I agree with it, but it's coming our way regardless and to think the FAA, EASA is somehow going to block this is foolish/
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1350
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Aircraft yokes are an ergonomic disaster

Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:02 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Yea... that's what they said about the radio operator , navigator, flight engineer, and single pilot IFR + any number of unthinkable practices. Not sayin I agree with it, but it's coming our way regardless and to think the FAA, EASA is somehow going to block this is foolish/


Single pilot operation is going to require no pilot operation in case of pilot incapacitation. By the time the technology gets good enough for single pilot ops, you might as well get rid of the pilot completely.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2262
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Aircraft yokes are an ergonomic disaster

Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:19 am

VSMUT wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Yea... that's what they said about the radio operator , navigator, flight engineer, and single pilot IFR + any number of unthinkable practices. Not sayin I agree with it, but it's coming our way regardless and to think the FAA, EASA is somehow going to block this is foolish/


Single pilot operation is going to require no pilot operation in case of pilot incapacitation. By the time the technology gets good enough for single pilot ops, you might as well get rid of the pilot completely.


Quick, please call Boeing and pass along that information as it will save them millions, or it might give some ideas:)
 
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7BOEING7
Posts: 2612
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Aircraft yokes are an ergonomic disaster

Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:23 pm

VSMUT wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Yea... that's what they said about the radio operator , navigator, flight engineer, and single pilot IFR + any number of unthinkable practices. Not sayin I agree with it, but it's coming our way regardless and to think the FAA, EASA is somehow going to block this is foolish/


Single pilot operation is going to require no pilot operation in case of pilot incapacitation. By the time the technology gets good enough for single pilot ops, you might as well get rid of the pilot completely.


Except single pilot operation will not really be single pilot -- there will be another one on the ground should there be an issue with the one inflight. The one on the ground will be monitoring multiple airplanes up until he becomes the replacement pilot for the incapacitated pilot. It's coming -- UPS and FEDEX first.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2262
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Aircraft yokes are an ergonomic disaster

Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:32 pm

Thank you 7BOING7! The human hot spare if you will.
 
VSMUT
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Aircraft yokes are an ergonomic disaster

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:09 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Yea... that's what they said about the radio operator , navigator, flight engineer, and single pilot IFR + any number of unthinkable practices. Not sayin I agree with it, but it's coming our way regardless and to think the FAA, EASA is somehow going to block this is foolish/


Single pilot operation is going to require no pilot operation in case of pilot incapacitation. By the time the technology gets good enough for single pilot ops, you might as well get rid of the pilot completely.


Except single pilot operation will not really be single pilot -- there will be another one on the ground should there be an issue with the one inflight. The one on the ground will be monitoring multiple airplanes up until he becomes the replacement pilot for the incapacitated pilot. It's coming -- UPS and FEDEX first.


Except that concept doesn't take into account that the aircraft would be completely out of control in case connection with ground control is lost for whatever reason. Until that scenario has been solved (ergo, the aircraft has to be able to fly itself in worst case), it won't happen.
You can be pretty certain that UPS and FedEx will be among the last to adopt this technology. They operate fleets of predominantly old aircraft designs that are in no way compatible with this new technology, and besides that they have a lot more lower-hanging fruit that they can utilize if they need to lower their costs.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2262
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Aircraft yokes are an ergonomic disaster

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:32 pm

This is not something you would retrofit to an earlier airframe, and to the contrary, Fred Smith is one of the biggest champions of this concept.
 
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golfradio
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:35 pm

Re: Aircraft yokes are an ergonomic disaster

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:48 pm

VSMUT wrote:
You can be pretty certain that UPS and FedEx will be among the last to adopt this technology. They operate fleets of predominantly old aircraft designs that are in no way compatible with this new technology, and besides that they have a lot more lower-hanging fruit that they can utilize if they need to lower their costs.


I think you meant to say they won't be the first and I agree completely. The capex to replace their fleets will be magnitudes more than the cost savings from reducing flight crews.
Bring back the old site.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1350
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Aircraft yokes are an ergonomic disaster

Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:53 pm

golfradio wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
You can be pretty certain that UPS and FedEx will be among the last to adopt this technology. They operate fleets of predominantly old aircraft designs that are in no way compatible with this new technology, and besides that they have a lot more lower-hanging fruit that they can utilize if they need to lower their costs.


I think you meant to say they won't be the first and I agree completely. The capex to replace their fleets will be magnitudes more than the cost savings from reducing flight crews.


This.

And even looking past that, it would be an understatement to say that the FedEx and UPS pilots I meet at work live a pretty good life, significantly better than many passenger airline crews do. If FedEx and UPS really wanted to reduce staffing costs, then it would be so much simpler for them to start there. They haven't, which really shows that the company isn't interested in lowering staff costs.
I am not criticizing them, I congratulate the crews and the company on achieving that. I just don't see the cargo airlines being first-movers with this technology. You will find it on passenger planes long before it finds it way onto freighters. Just look at the 777, the most modern freighter currently in service. It was 15 years before that plane came out as a freighter. FedEx and UPS are currently building fleets of 767 freighters. Those things will last at least 20+ years and will never fly with a single pilot. My own employer does a bit of cargo flying for FedEx, and we have just started "modernizing" the fleet with "state-of-the-art" 737-400s.

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