blogdoguib
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What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:39 pm

I want the difference of the engines PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2
 
Andre3K
Posts: 147
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:09 pm

blogdoguib wrote:
I want the difference of the engines PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2



NOBODY here can answer the question exactly in the way that you want. I mean besides the fact that one is Pratt and Whitney and the other is GE, there are probably over 50 differences between the two.

You need to be ALOT more specific.

Try looking at the TCDS's for each engine.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files ... 102012.pdf

https://www2.lba.de/data/bb/Motoren/EN_0007_IM_V02.pdf this is not the C2 but it's all i could find in a short time.

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commer ... /A20WE.pdf C2 listed in here.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:02 am

Maintenance cost !
 
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767333ER
Posts: 668
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:54 pm

Different engines made by different people. The CF6 is noticeably louder and burns more oil, by both are reliable.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T
 
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Horstroad
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:44 am

The CF6-80C2 has a fan diamter of 93" while the PW4000-94 has a fan diameter of 94"
 
Sancho99504
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:49 am

Cf6:
CF6 Aircraft Engine Technical Specifications

Max. thrust 282 kN
Air mass flow 874 kg/s
Bypass ratio 5.3:1
Pressure ratio 32.6:1
Length 4270 mm
Max. fan diameter 2690 mm
Weight 4472 kg


4000-94:
Max. thrust 275.8 kN
Bypass ratio 5:1
Pressure ratio 32.3:1:1
Length 3901 mm
Diameter 2386 mm
Weight 4341 kg

Appears that the Cf6 is bigger, longer, heavier and more powerful.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
WIederling
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:00 pm

Appears that the Cf6 is bigger, longer, heavier and more powerful.

not really quantum leaps differences, is it?
All delta is in the small single digit department. smaller than type spread ?
Murphy is an optimist
 
A380MSN004
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:33 pm

Maintenance cost is another story with P&W (Leaps aside).
GE tends to be the better deal so far
 
Chaostheory
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:42 pm

WIederling wrote:
Appears that the Cf6 is bigger, longer, heavier and more powerful.

not really quantum leaps differences, is it?
All delta is in the small single digit department. smaller than type spread ?


That's pretty much it.

A small fuel burn, reliability, maintenance and therefore cost advantage to the CF6 (for most airlines). If you're someone like SQ and you manage to wrap the engine OEMs round your finger as they have with Pratt (PW4000) and RR(T1000/900/XWB), then the cost advantage usually tips in the other's favour.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:05 pm

Chaostheory wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Appears that the Cf6 is bigger, longer, heavier and more powerful.

not really quantum leaps differences, is it?
All delta is in the small single digit department. smaller than type spread ?


That's pretty much it.

A small fuel burn, reliability, maintenance and therefore cost advantage to the CF6 (for most airlines). If you're someone like SQ and you manage to wrap the engine OEMs round your finger as they have with Pratt (PW4000) and RR(T1000/900/XWB), then the cost advantage usually tips in the other's favour.


Interesting to see some airlines such as Condor who has its own maintenance unit "Condor Technik GmbH" is doing PW & GE maintenance (Their 767s got both engine type).
 
Dalmd88
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:42 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:
Chaostheory wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Appears that the Cf6 is bigger, longer, heavier and more powerful.

not really quantum leaps differences, is it?
All delta is in the small single digit department. smaller than type spread ?


That's pretty much it.

A small fuel burn, reliability, maintenance and therefore cost advantage to the CF6 (for most airlines). If you're someone like SQ and you manage to wrap the engine OEMs round your finger as they have with Pratt (PW4000) and RR(T1000/900/XWB), then the cost advantage usually tips in the other's favour.


Interesting to see some airlines such as Condor who has its own maintenance unit "Condor Technik GmbH" is doing PW & GE maintenance (Their 767s got both engine type).

Looks like Condor can only do Line and 'A' check services. That is usually limited to engine changes, and basic on wing servicing like filters and component changes. That is really the most bare bones maintenance that an airline can do if they do any of their own work or contract provide. Once the engine gets removed it would be sent to an MRO shop for internal repairs.
 
WIederling
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:46 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
Looks like Condor can only do Line and 'A' check services.



Today CCT is a 100% subsidiary of LH Technik. Came Full circle :-?
Not much that LHT is not capable of doing. ( afaik )
Murphy is an optimist
 
A380MSN004
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:00 pm

WIederling wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
Looks like Condor can only do Line and 'A' check services.



Today CCT is a 100% subsidiary of LH Technik. Came Full circle :-?
Not much that LHT is not capable of doing. ( afaik )


Very interesting. So CCT is doing the internal shop repairs aswell or not?
 
WIederling
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:47 am

A380MSN004 wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
Looks like Condor can only do Line and 'A' check services.



Today CCT is a 100% subsidiary of LH Technik. Came Full circle :-?
Not much that LHT is not capable of doing. ( afaik )


Very interesting. So CCT is doing the internal shop repairs aswell or not?


IMU CCT used to do airframe work up to and including C Checks.
Nothing about engines mentioned. But that always has been an LHT domain.
Murphy is an optimist
 
rbavfan
Posts: 1881
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:41 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
Cf6:
CF6 Aircraft Engine Technical Specifications

Max. thrust 282 kN
Air mass flow 874 kg/s
Bypass ratio 5.3:1
Pressure ratio 32.6:1
Length 4270 mm
Max. fan diameter 2690 mm
Weight 4472 kg


4000-94:
Max. thrust 275.8 kN
Bypass ratio 5:1
Pressure ratio 32.3:1:1
Length 3901 mm
Diameter 2386 mm
Weight 4341 kg

Appears that the Cf6 is bigger, longer, heavier and more powerful.


I believe the CF6 sold a lot more than PW did with the 4000.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 397
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:59 pm

rbavfan wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
Cf6:
CF6 Aircraft Engine Technical Specifications

Max. thrust 282 kN
Air mass flow 874 kg/s
Bypass ratio 5.3:1
Pressure ratio 32.6:1
Length 4270 mm
Max. fan diameter 2690 mm
Weight 4472 kg


4000-94:
Max. thrust 275.8 kN
Bypass ratio 5:1
Pressure ratio 32.3:1:1
Length 3901 mm
Diameter 2386 mm
Weight 4341 kg

Appears that the Cf6 is bigger, longer, heavier and more powerful.


I believe the CF6 sold a lot more than PW did with the 4000.

The pratts did fairly well on the 747-400 and 767-300/ER and Md-11. It isn't very popular on the A330 or 777.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
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Channex757
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:20 pm

One visible difference is that the GE is a "clean" burning engine, whereas PW motors tend to produce visible soot/smoke.
 
Andre3K
Posts: 147
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:45 am

Channex757 wrote:
One visible difference is that the GE is a "clean" burning engine, whereas PW motors tend to produce visible soot/smoke.


As engines age, they all do this eventually. But if you do regular compressor/turbine washes this can be minimized.
 
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Channex757
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:33 am

Andre3K wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
One visible difference is that the GE is a "clean" burning engine, whereas PW motors tend to produce visible soot/smoke.


As engines age, they all do this eventually. But if you do regular compressor/turbine washes this can be minimized.

Pratts have always tended to be a little more smoky than the CF6. It's certainly noticeable in the MD-11 versions, and the 744 fitment also shows a smoke trail where the CF6 engined ones are much less noticeable.

On the MD-11 it always seemed to be from the bottom of the turbine outlet nozzle, so I was wondering if it's anything to do with the oil breather setup or just the way the PW4000 throws oil overboard in general.
 
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Horstroad
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:06 am

WIederling wrote:


Today CCT is a 100% subsidiary of LH Technik. Came Full circle :-?
Not much that LHT is not capable of doing. ( afaik )


Former CCT (Condor Cargo Technik) is now LTMI (Lufthansa Technik Maintenance International), a 100% subsidiary of Lufthansa Technik, as you said. LTMI currently does the maintenance for Lufthansa Cargo aircraft and all other line and base maintenance customers of Lufthansa Technik.
It is not Condor Technik though. Condor Technik is a completely different company with no direct links to Lufthansa Technik or LTMI. Condor uses LTMI as a vendor to get some load off of Condor Technik.


Channex757 wrote:
Andre3K wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
One visible difference is that the GE is a "clean" burning engine, whereas PW motors tend to produce visible soot/smoke.


As engines age, they all do this eventually. But if you do regular compressor/turbine washes this can be minimized.

Pratts have always tended to be a little more smoky than the CF6. It's certainly noticeable in the MD-11 versions, and the 744 fitment also shows a smoke trail where the CF6 engined ones are much less noticeable.

On the MD-11 it always seemed to be from the bottom of the turbine outlet nozzle, so I was wondering if it's anything to do with the oil breather setup or just the way the PW4000 throws oil overboard in general.

Especially during engine start PWs are VERY smoky. If you don't know about it you might think you got a first start up of some preserved engines. You usually don't get any significant smoke out of a GE unless it's very cold. The PW smoke like they are kickstarted with a quart of engine oil.
 
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767333ER
Posts: 668
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:43 pm

I've been on PW4000 powered aircraft a few times sitting behind the engine and I've never really noticed the smoke. Maybe I need to see an MD-11 with those engines start up. What I have noticed is how much longer they take to start. In the time it takes to get one CF6 started and get the other one to just light off you will have only just finished starting one PW4000! Another difference is that the PW4000 uses EPR as its primary engine readout and of course the CF6 uses N1, P&W has since discontinued the use of EPR with the PW1000G.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T
 
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Horstroad
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:50 pm

767333ER wrote:
I've been on PW4000 powered aircraft a few times sitting behind the engine and I've never really noticed the smoke. Maybe I need to see an MD-11 with those engines start up.


This is the #1 engine starting. It starts smoking as soon as the fuel lever is switched and goes on for about 30 seconds.

Image
 
Andre3K
Posts: 147
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:10 pm

Now that I think about it the C-17's smoke like crazy on startup. I remember when I first saw that, I thought something was wrong. The little things are what I miss about the Air Force.
 
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767333ER
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:14 am

Andre3K wrote:
Now that I think about it the C-17's smoke like crazy on startup. I remember when I first saw that, I thought something was wrong. The little things are what I miss about the Air Force.

That's the PW2000 and I have noticed that they like to smoke sometimes on startup.
Horstroad wrote:
This is the #1 engine starting. It starts smoking as soon as the fuel lever is switched and goes on for about 30 seconds.

Image

That looks like it was a cool day which usually never helps either.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T
 
mmo
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:48 am

As a very experienced engineer told me years ago the difference between RR/GE and Pratt is easy. The RR is like a finely crafted Swiss watch. Everything is perfectly balanced and one slight problem and the watch has to be sent back and repaired; the GE is like a new (at the time) digital watch, keeps great time but it will run into problems at some point and when it does, it's very expensive to repair! Finally, the Pratt, it's like a Timex watch, takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
A380MSN004
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:29 am

mmo wrote:
As a very experienced engineer told me years ago the difference between RR/GE and Pratt is easy. The RR is like a finely crafted Swiss watch. Everything is perfectly balanced and one slight problem and the watch has to be sent back and repaired; the GE is like a new (at the time) digital watch, keeps great time but it will run into problems at some point and when it does, it's very expensive to repair! Finally, the Pratt, it's like a Timex watch, takes a licking and keeps on ticking.


Well not sure at all that P&W is cheaper than GE regarding the maintenance. Especially between PW4000-94 and the CF6-80C2
 
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767333ER
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:29 am

A380MSN004 wrote:
mmo wrote:
As a very experienced engineer told me years ago the difference between RR/GE and Pratt is easy. The RR is like a finely crafted Swiss watch. Everything is perfectly balanced and one slight problem and the watch has to be sent back and repaired; the GE is like a new (at the time) digital watch, keeps great time but it will run into problems at some point and when it does, it's very expensive to repair! Finally, the Pratt, it's like a Timex watch, takes a licking and keeps on ticking.


Well not sure at all that P&W is cheaper than GE regarding the maintenance. Especially between PW4000-94 and the CF6-80C2

I've actually heard similar things to mmo. They are both durable engines, but if they sustain a experience stall for example, it has been said that the CF6 will generally take more damage and need more repair than the PW4000-94 would. They all were competitive on the 747-400 and it's thrust requirement, but the RB211 basically failed on the 767 because it couldn't produce the thrust the other two can also the same reason it was not offered on the 767-400 or 747-400ER.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T
 
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tradefairs
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:06 pm

The Pratt & Whitney PW4000 is a family of high-bypass turbofan aircraft engines with certified thrust ranging from 52,000 to 99,040 lbf (230 to 441 kN). Built as the successor to the JT9D series engines, it has found much wider application than its predecessor.
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: What is the difference between the PW4000-94 and CF6-80C2 engines?

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:10 pm

The CF6 takes about 35 seconds to start, while the PW4000 takes a good minute longer! That is a significant difference to me.

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