MichianaOrthx
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Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:19 pm

"Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:40 pm

According to this interesting article by Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... el-savings), Boeing has been working with NASA to study ways that airliners could cut fuel costs without having to dramatically change their existing fleets.

One of the options being investigated is "wake surfing", where planes would draft behind one another in a V-shape to reduce air resistance and in turn cut fuel costs. It certainly seems like an interesting idea, but I am not sure that it is something that will ever come to fruition. I doubt competing airlines would be willing to take turns drafting their competitors, and it might be difficult for airlines to draft in crowded airspace.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:50 pm

MichianaOrthx wrote:
According to this interesting article by Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... el-savings), Boeing has been working with NASA to study ways that airliners could cut fuel costs without having to dramatically change their existing fleets.

One of the options being investigated is "wake surfing", where planes would draft behind one another in a V-shape to reduce air resistance and in turn cut fuel costs. It certainly seems like an interesting idea, but I am not sure that it is something that will ever come to fruition. I doubt competing airlines would be willing to take turns drafting their competitors, and it might be difficult for airlines to draft in crowded airspace.


They can hire NASCAR consultants, but if you've ever watched a race you know how risky it is to Draft...
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:58 pm

Bump-drafting? TROUBLE ON THE BACKSTRETCH!
 
BDL9849120
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:59 pm

I like it. They're talking like 8000 ft apart, doesn't seem too dangerous.
 
BDL9849120
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:04 pm

I like it. They're talking like 8000 ft apart, doesn't seem too dangerous.
 
dc10lover
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:26 pm

Want to save fuel? Taxi from the runway to the gate using one engine. The #2 engine.
Ever Wish You Can Go Back In Time And Live In An Earlier Era Of Aviation?
 
flight152
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:31 pm

dc10lover wrote:
Want to save fuel? Taxi from the runway to the gate using one engine. The #2 engine.

Great idea! Probably why it's already being done.
 
Kikko19
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:40 pm

flight152 wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
Want to save fuel? Taxi from the runway to the gate using one engine. The #2 engine.

Great idea! Probably why it's already being done.

AB has some electrical engine for taxying... So I read somewhere.
 
flyby519
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:53 pm

Lol! And Moderate turbulence the entire flight? no thanks
These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:01 pm

...will they also land in that V formation on that circular runway??...
 
WPvsMW
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:28 pm

They would de-echelon to land on the circular runway, and reform the V as they taxi to the newly built V concourses.
 
SkyVoice
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:44 am

BN727227Ultra wrote:
Bump-drafting? TROUBLE ON THE BACKSTRETCH!


"And they're THREE WIDE going into Runway Three" ! ! !
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:29 am

SkyVoice wrote:
BN727227Ultra wrote:
Bump-drafting? TROUBLE ON THE BACKSTRETCH!


"And they're THREE WIDE going into Runway Three" ! ! !


:-)
 
JoeCanuck
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:39 am

All you would need is one teeny miscalculation and it would be spilled coke and cardboard sandwiches everywhere.

Might work for those pilotless cargo drones we've been hearing about.
What the...?
 
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Faro
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:30 am

If you can appropriately synchronise departures, do it with cargo flights...

If the results are worthwhile, start pax flight trials...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
StTim
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:06 am

Airbus has already done some testing on this idea. I cannot find the article but I do remember reading it.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:08 am

The negativity on this site for these slightly away from the norm practices that have benefits it astounding.

There is nothing normal or inherently safe about flying through a part of the atmosphere that cannot sustain human life in a thin aluminium or plastic tube at speeds that would rip a person to pieces powered by lumps of metal and plastic spinning faster than the eye can see transporting gasses that are hotter then the melting points of the materials they are made from sat below a tank of flammable liquid, which is incidentally the same bit that stops you plummeting to you death.

But hey, don't fly one plane near another because... you know... That would be dangerous.
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Starlionblue
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:16 am

flipdewaf wrote:
The negativity on this site for these slightly away from the norm practices that have benefits it astounding.

There is nothing normal or inherently safe about flying through a part of the atmosphere that cannot sustain human life in a thin aluminium or plastic tube at speeds that would rip a person to pieces powered by lumps of metal and plastic spinning faster than the eye can see transporting gasses that are hotter then the melting points of the materials they are made from sat below a tank of flammable liquid, which is incidentally the same bit that stops you plummeting to you death.

But hey, don't fly one plane near another because... you know... That would be dangerous.


I think the statistics of commercial aviation since the beginning of the jet age proves it to be safer than any other form of travel.

Wakesurfing is a grand idea, but why reach so far to get savings. Millions could be saved, probably daily, by simply making ATC more efficient. If all regions were like Western Europe, North America and Australia, fuel savings would be astounding.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
flipdewaf
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Re: "Wake Surfing" Could Cut Fuel Costs for Airlines

Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:24 am

Starlionblue wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
The negativity on this site for these slightly away from the norm practices that have benefits it astounding.

There is nothing normal or inherently safe about flying through a part of the atmosphere that cannot sustain human life in a thin aluminium or plastic tube at speeds that would rip a person to pieces powered by lumps of metal and plastic spinning faster than the eye can see transporting gasses that are hotter then the melting points of the materials they are made from sat below a tank of flammable liquid, which is incidentally the same bit that stops you plummeting to you death.

But hey, don't fly one plane near another because... you know... That would be dangerous.


I think the statistics of commercial aviation since the beginning of the jet age proves it to be safer than any other form of travel.

Wakesurfing is a grand idea, but why reach so far to get savings. Millions could be saved, probably daily, by simply making ATC more efficient. If all regions were like Western Europe, North America and Australia, fuel savings would be astounding.


But it's not inherently safe, its safe because of the way we deal with the risks/danger. We train, automate, regulate design and repair. License operators and operations, instill cultures of safety and responsibility. There is no reason to believe that these competencies would not be added to any other new developments within the industry.

I totally agree with you with regards the ATC piece, the low hanging fruit should be grabbed but we shouldn't stop building ladders for the fruit that's higher.

Fred
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