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rjsampson
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Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:59 pm

I was having this discussion with my Uncle the other day (former major carrier, now Global Express pilot who started my training when I was 14).

I can't imagine that there are many pilots on this thread would be able to say "Of course, I want a G-650 when I retire, and I'll buy one."

I'm guessing that a good proportion of us on this forum are pilots, ranging from to Students to Captain Archer :smile:). I'm decades away from my non-aviation related retirement. I suspect though, like many of you, I've thought: "what plane would I buy for me, and/or family, when I have the time and money?" Whether you've already done it, or plan to do it.

Uncle Bombardier and I both concluded together:

1) It must be a twin. We're not putting our family on a single-engine airplane.
2) It must be reliable.
3) It can't break the bank.

I was suggesting that the perfect airplane would be a King Air. Uncle "type-rated-on-everything", and his wife, a former AA pilot who now takes care of the kids, totally agreed, but suggested that this would be the best "dream" option. Uncle told me that he would be pouring Jet-A through reliable PT-6's, eating into retirement funds. We were trying to figure out the "perfect airplane" for our families. A $2 million aircraft burning Jet-A is likely not in our future (but it may be in some of yours).

We all have low six-figure salaries. But we do want to eventually buy an airplane for ourselves and people we want to fly as passengers. Sure, we could buy the perfect airplane now, concurrent with our careers (yeah right), or one day, buy a plane that we can call our own, and bring kids, loved ones, friends, heck, even the Grandparents. I'm 35, but I've always thought about this.

What do you guys think? I can't imagine there's a bunch of millionaire pilots on this forum. I'm sure at least some of us have thought of that "dream airplane" that we can one day afford. What would it be for you?

Thoughts?
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2097
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:26 pm

J-3
 
NozPerry
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:12 am

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:30 am

In an ideal world it would be a F70, but I have a penchant for Soviet a/c an AN-2 would do the trick
I love the feel of a Go Around in the morning
 
Okcflyer
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:10 am

TBM
 
Max Q
Posts: 5937
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:09 am

TBM is a single, no matter how many bells and whistles, as is a J3.


If you're looking for a reliable twin with a decent payload, from your sensible budget plan
I can't think of any aircraft that would fit the bill better than a well cared for
pre-owned Beech Baron.


Extremely well built, good redundancy with twin engine safety, decent speed, good payload / range and a beautiful
handling aircraft on two engines or one.


I flew some absolute junker Barons and some really nice ones in a previous life, they were all a delight and brought
me home through some terrible weather. I'd trust a well maintained one over any other piston twin, single turboprop
and of course piston single, you can't go wrong, it's not just the best in it's class, it's in a class by itself.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
RJMAZ
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:54 am

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:17 am

A good condition Piper PA-31 Navajo

Twin 6 cylinder Continentals engines. One of the faster piston engine aircraft. Great range and low fuel consumption. Enough room for the wife and kids definitely the most realistic and practical option.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1460
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:50 am

Two of my favorite captains from "back in the day" both went with V tailed Bonanzas as their retirement air transportation. Another - who just retired about 6 weeks ago - is looking for a Cessna Skymaster (he had one previously).
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
mmo
Posts: 1111
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:15 am

Being retired, the last thing I want do do is fly. With over 24,000 hours, I've had enough. For me, it's a seat in F/J and relax. If I can't get there by air, I'm just not going.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
aeropix
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:08 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:03 pm

mmo wrote:
Being retired, the last thing I want do do is fly. With over 24,000 hours, I've had enough.


Wowzers, thanks for the input there Mr. Downer! I'm really sorry the airline game sucked the passion out of you. Unfortunately I see this in perhaps at least half if not the majority of the people that I fly with. Sure I only have 15,000 hours as of yet but I can't imagine NOT flying when I retire.

I take great joy in every aircraft rental whenever I'm on an accessible layover and I too dream of owning an aircraft when I retire. My dream aircraft is a TBM-950 or PC-12 but my realistic goal is a Cherokee-Six or Piper Malibu class aircraft..

Mr. Downer, do you realize that even today, less than 10% of the worlds population alive now has every even been on an airplane, had the privilege of seeing our planet from the unique perspective of the air? I know it's easy to get jaded and I am not trying to project my sensibilities on to youor anyone else. It just really saddens me when I see people who do not appreciate the tremendous gift of opportunity they've been given in life and I think it's helpful to "pull the lens back to wide angle" sometimes and take stock of the opportunities you've been endowed, including the privilege of being in the sky, and the chance to be at the controls is truly for the "less than 1%" so that's a special bonus to be cherished rather than blithely tossed aside at the end of a career.

With all that being said, I find that the safety advantage of light twins is overrated and the bloated insurance quotes attest to that. Find a good six place single that'll do 150kts and you'll be golden both for transport and your pocketbook.
 
Calder
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:34 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:12 pm

I manage a small airport and FBO for a small town in the northern edges of the USA. We've got a couple of twins based on the field, but it's the owner of the twin Comanche, and the owner of the Beech Baron who seem to enjoy their aircraft the most.

I'm not sure you can get more economical than a twin Comanche as far as knots/fuel burn, but the payload of the Baron is, of course, higher.

I guess it really depends on more specific mission requirements. Unless I have a gaggle of children/grandchildren it's my dream to build one of the various (4 place) Lancairs for use as a cross country machine, and maybe a Piper Clipper for cruising around/off field landings.
C. T.
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1421
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:53 pm

I guess it would depend on your mission.

If you're using it to get your family from point A to point B so that you can enjoy your destination and park the plane at the airport, then I would have to say a King Air, if you need more cargo, I'd personally see about finding a B99 or B1900. They can go halfway across the US without refuelling - you're in the mid/high teens - low 20s - no other/minimal traffic at those altitudes and can get pretty much direct anywhere. With enough money you can equip it a lot better than the airlines/freight companies. Ive seen some 1900's that were bought by private owners and they were way nicer and much better equipped than the airline version 1900s that I flew.

But Barons are nice too. I really like flying Barons. But I think I'd rather have turbine engines and a pressurized cabin - so King Air would be the minimum for me.

However I think there a quite a few people who have traded in their turboprop King Airs for personal light jets and can seem to find the money to keep them flying.


If you're just looking for an aircraft to fart around in not looking to go anywhere, I'd take a Grob or a J-3 Cub. If money is no object and you have unlimited amount of it - The ultimate for me is getting a private de-milled F-18. - lots of tired out of time A/B/C/D airframes out there. With a single centerline external drop tank - clean and not having to worry about asymmetric drag index, you can get an f-18 halfway across the country subsonic or take it out over VACAPES, SOCAL, GOMEX and go supersonic for a few minutes before you have to go back to get more fuel.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
LH707330
Posts: 1744
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:34 pm

Could you do a frac on a small business jet? The first thing I'd consider is how much flying I'd realistically be doing, and whether I'd be ahead or behind on ownership cost versus renting. I see a lot of GA planes at my local airport sitting on the ground 29 or 30 days a month. That means the engines are rotting, corrosion is kicking in, etc.
 
mmo
Posts: 1111
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:38 pm

aeropix wrote:
mmo wrote:
Being retired, the last thing I want do do is fly. With over 24,000 hours, I've had enough.


Wowzers, thanks for the input there Mr. Downer! I'm really sorry the airline game sucked the passion out of you. Unfortunately I see this in perhaps at least half if not the majority of the people that I fly with. Sure I only have 15,000 hours as of yet but I can't imagine NOT flying when I retire.

I take great joy in every aircraft rental whenever I'm on an accessible layover and I too dream of owning an aircraft when I retire. My dream aircraft is a TBM-950 or PC-12 but my realistic goal is a Cherokee-Six or Piper Malibu class aircraft..

Mr. Downer, do you realize that even today, less than 10% of the worlds population alive now has every even been on an airplane, had the privilege of seeing our planet from the unique perspective of the air? I know it's easy to get jaded and I am not trying to project my sensibilities on to youor anyone else. It just really saddens me when I see people who do not appreciate the tremendous gift of opportunity they've been given in life and I think it's helpful to "pull the lens back to wide angle" sometimes and take stock of the opportunities you've been endowed, including the privilege of being in the sky, and the chance to be at the controls is truly for the "less than 1%" so that's a special bonus to be cherished rather than blithely tossed aside at the end of a career.

With all that being said, I find that the safety advantage of light twins is overrated and the bloated insurance quotes attest to that. Find a good six place single that'll do 150kts and you'll be golden both for transport and your pocketbook.



First of all, what gives you the right to dictate to me how I can spend my retirement? I think it's quite presumptuous of you and quite egotistical of you to comment on a person's choice.

But, for me it's about choices. Do I miss flying, sure I do. Do I miss all the hassles which are associated with being a Captain flying international flights for the last 20+ years, no! I'm not tired any more, I enjoy sleeping in my own bed, I enjoy getting up in the morning feeling refreshed. The "airline game" has not sucked the passion out of me, far from it. Since my retirement I have had both hips replaced, a new knee, a couple of finger joints replaced with artificial joints, so "father time" has had his go with me. It's not as you characterize it. I know my limits and what my limitations are.

All my children are grown, University/College graduates, well established, and above all happy! I am too. Your idea of winging across the skies is good for you, but for me and my wife, we like to do a different kind of travel. We have a house in Spain, rent another in HKT and still maintain one in the UK. I would love to hear you talking about flying to all of those in a single engine six seater you advocate!
,
Just to make sure you understand, just because someone does not agree with your ideals, values, ideas that does not give you the right to criticize, belittle them in any way, shape or form! You seriously need to grow up!
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
Redbellyguppy
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:57 am

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:41 pm

Beaver on floats.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2197
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:50 pm

Anything on floats, and Beaver would be near the top of the list. Preferably a PT6 instead of the R985.
 
mxaxai
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:28 pm

A small, and possible rather affordable twin would be the DA-42. http://www.diamondaircraft.com/aircraft/da42/ It gets you 11 mpg@190 ktas or 15 mpg@152 ktas (jet A), with a price of around $500.000 and only slightly used.

If money was only a minor issue, the PC-24 looks fantastic.
If a single-engine was acceptable too, I'd go with the PC-12 or a mooney
Finally, for recreation and fun a modern glider would be my choice.
 
bluejuice
Posts: 337
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:55 am

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:02 pm

How about a Tecnam P2006T?
 
gtae07
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:43 am

"Twin" and "not break the bank" don't typically go together ;)

I'm building an RV-7 and perhaps after that's done we'll look at some kind of partnership (4 owners or so) in a four-seat homebuilt (RV-10, Velocity, etc).

I could never afford the maintenance and parts costs for a certified airplane, let alone a certified twin. And I make pretty decent money.
 
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Francoflier
Posts: 4211
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:06 am

The 'gotta-be-a-twin-for-safety' thing sounds good, but does not necessarily make sense in the real world. A well maintained turbine single which flies low hours/cycles (private owner) is just as safe as a twin imo.
Yes, you don't have an extra engine to save you, but you also have half the chance of losing one...

Engine failures on light twins are often a cause of accident, especially when talking about GA pilots with little training, time on type and overall experience.
Even an experienced airline pilot might not be able to handle the situation adequately.

There's a difference between practicing V1 cuts on a 737 sim twice a year and doing a few handling sessions on a King Air with an engine idled and never practice it again.

And considering the retirement scenario, your reflexes and though processes won't be what they were earlier in your career...

I haven't delved into the statistics, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't contradict me

Same goes for single vs. twin piston btw. Those piston twins have bugger-all performance on one engine and are tricky as hell to handle.

I'll save money and get myself a TBM thank you very much, and if I can't afford that, then a cirrus single with the chute...

The reality of course, will probably be closer to something I build in a garage on the cheap, at the end of the day...

:indifferent:
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
wa5
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:49 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:35 am

The chances of me ever affording or even being able to fly a plane are slim, so its all fantasy... that being the case, I'll take a 748. Polished, with a window strip in blue and 747 emblazoned on the tail. If I'm to have my own plane, it will have enough room to stretch my legs and it will enough thrust that anybody within cooee will think the world is ending when I open the throttles. If budgetary constraints made the 748 unobtainable, I'd like a go anywhere aircraft, like a Caribou, something I could go camping in, with all my mates, and take a few dirt bikes...
 
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Starlionblue
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:19 am

If we're talking light aircraft, I'd much rather buy a single than a twin. Light twins are a hazard. The added redundancy of the second engine is more than negated by the risk inherent in the horrible handling characteristics if you lose an engine.

If I bought a piston, a Cessna 206. If a turbine, a PC-12.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
zanl188
Posts: 3517
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:28 am

Caravan. Dual engine STC available if that's a concern.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
SCAT15F
Posts: 678
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:34 am

Re: Before/after retirement: What's your plane for you, and/or family?

Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:28 pm

Cessna 400 with TSIO-550-A's

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