Idlewildspotter
Topic Author
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:30 pm

Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:42 pm

I was on a Jetblue A320 to GCM, Grand Cayman, which has a 7,000 ft. Runway and lacks a parelell taxiway.

I spoke with the crew and they said they always use full reverse and heavy braking to avoid backtracking to the end.

Are there any airports where you have experienced this procedure before? Are there any that stick out particularly>
Instagram: @JFKSPOTTING
 
ChrisKen
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:15 pm

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:34 pm

FNC - Rwy 05
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:18 pm

LTN
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 11322
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:38 pm

MLE also an island airport with no parallel taxiway.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
User avatar
northstardc4m
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 11:23 am

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:52 pm

Lots of airports... YTS, YYB, YXE, even YYZ landing on 23... Mostly on Dash 8s but once very recently on an E190 at YYZ... bags audibly slammed forwards in the overheads they braked so hard... just to make Foxtrot i think it is... it can happen anywhere if ATC asks for an expedited clear.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
NW747-400
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:17 pm

SXM to minimize back taxiing. There's no way to avoid it entirely unless your in a light business jet or GA aircraft.
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 1969
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:18 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
Lots of airports... YTS, YYB, YXE, even YYZ landing on 23... Mostly on Dash 8s but once very recently on an E190 at YYZ... bags audibly slammed forwards in the overheads they braked so hard... just to make Foxtrot i think it is... it can happen anywhere if ATC asks for an expedited clear.


It can also happen when a flight is late or it is the last flight of the day and the crew want to get home. Management is getting smart though. They can watch brake temperatures and set alerts using Airplane Health Management to watch who and where the brakes get overheated.
 
User avatar
TOGA10
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:49 am

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:25 pm

SPU on both ends, BOD on 05, MLA on 13/31 (although a long rwy).
That said, on a dry rwy full revers isn't always helping, at least on the 'bus auto brake works on a fixed rate of deceleration, so using full reverse just means the brakes have to work a bit less hard. Wet runways are different, as the braking action might be less than good.
The natural function of the wing is to soar upwards and carry that which is heavy up to the place where dwells the race of gods. More than any other thing that pertains to the body it partakes of the nature of the divine. - Plato
 
Bostrom
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:51 pm

VBY. A 2000 m runway with a narrow parallell taxiway. The airport is mostly used by turboprops and CRJs, but in the summer it sees 737s. I've once landed there in a 737-800 (with 100% load factor). With heavy braking and full reverse the crew managed to stop in 1500 m and avoid backtracking. That landing was an experience, I was glad I had a seat belt.
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:33 am

I can add that passenger perception of max braking is usually MED brakes on the A320 and its counterpart in the Boeing. Medium A/BRK comfortably stops an A320 within 1200-1500m.

Max braking OTOH is hardly ever used unless in emergency or rejected take off. It feels like hitting a wall :)
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17896
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:39 pm

thepinkmachine wrote:
I can add that passenger perception of max braking is usually MED brakes on the A320 and its counterpart in the Boeing. Medium A/BRK comfortably stops an A320 within 1200-1500m.

Max braking OTOH is hardly ever used unless in emergency or rejected take off. It feels like hitting a wall :)


Too true. We hardly ever use medium braking and it feels quite harsh. To paraphrase SlamClick about max braking: "the last thing you would see before the outside disappeared in a cloud of fire and smoke would be the paint job sliding off the nose of the aircraft."
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1188
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:30 pm

We do it all the time on the ATR, either to backtrack the least amount (or avoid it altogether), or to make the most convenient exit (an advantage of being able to land in only a few hundred meters :smile: ). On the other hand, often we hardly brake at all for the same reasons. BTW, we don't have that auto-brake selector like on the big planes. We do it manually.
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:18 pm

VSMUT wrote:
We do it all the time on the ATR, either to backtrack the least amount (or avoid it altogether), or to make the most convenient exit (an advantage of being able to land in only a few hundred meters :smile: ). On the other hand, often we hardly brake at all for the same reasons. BTW, we don't have that auto-brake selector like on the big planes. We do it manually.


Ah, the memories... :) On the ATR we were sometimes overtaken by a jet during flight, only to land behind them make the first exit and beat them to the ramp, while they had to taxi back all the way from the end of the rwy :)
 
dassal
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:54 pm

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:16 pm

JSI, Skiathos, Greece, 5300 ft
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1188
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:39 pm

thepinkmachine wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
We do it all the time on the ATR, either to backtrack the least amount (or avoid it altogether), or to make the most convenient exit (an advantage of being able to land in only a few hundred meters :smile: ). On the other hand, often we hardly brake at all for the same reasons. BTW, we don't have that auto-brake selector like on the big planes. We do it manually.


Ah, the memories... :) On the ATR we were sometimes overtaken by a jet during flight, only to land behind them make the first exit and beat them to the ramp, while they had to taxi back all the way from the end of the rwy :)


Or being able to cut in front of a jet during approach because the jet has to do a full procedure with downwind, and we can simply do a visual turn and steep descent with CLs at 100% onto a short final! :D
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:10 pm

VSMUT wrote:
thepinkmachine wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
We do it all the time on the ATR, either to backtrack the least amount (or avoid it altogether), or to make the most convenient exit (an advantage of being able to land in only a few hundred meters :smile: ). On the other hand, often we hardly brake at all for the same reasons. BTW, we don't have that auto-brake selector like on the big planes. We do it manually.


Ah, the memories... :) On the ATR we were sometimes overtaken by a jet during flight, only to land behind them make the first exit and beat them to the ramp, while they had to taxi back all the way from the end of the rwy :)


Or being able to cut in front of a jet during approach because the jet has to do a full procedure with downwind, and we can simply do a visual turn and steep descent with CLs at 100% onto a short final! :D


Or keeping 240KT till 7nm final. Good times! :)
 
User avatar
TOGA10
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:49 am

Re: Avoiding Backtrack, Full Reverse and Max Braking?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:22 am

thepinkmachine wrote:
I can add that passenger perception of max braking is usually MED brakes on the A320 and its counterpart in the Boeing. Medium A/BRK comfortably stops an A320 within 1200-1500m.

Max braking OTOH is hardly ever used unless in emergency or rejected take off. It feels like hitting a wall :)

Not sure max auto brake is allowed on the 320 other than for RTO's. Apparently the derotation rate is too violent! Can't find any info in the FCOM, but that's what a very senior trainer told me when I asked about it.
The natural function of the wing is to soar upwards and carry that which is heavy up to the place where dwells the race of gods. More than any other thing that pertains to the body it partakes of the nature of the divine. - Plato

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: flflyguy, PanAm_DC10, Spacepope, TZTriStar500 and 2 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos