achutchison
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A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:23 pm

It's my understanding that these two aircraft have some of the quietest cockpits in the sky. Anyone here flown both and can say which is quieter? Also, newer jets may be quieter than older ones.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:25 am

The 330/340 cockpit is significantly quieter than the 777. The 350 is quieter than the 330/340, but since it is wider you seem to have to speak at the same volume anyway. ;)

There's even talk of permanent hearing loss among 777 crews.
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skyhawkmatthew
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:47 am

Starlionblue wrote:
The 330/340 cockpit is significantly quieter than the 777. The 350 is quieter than the 330/340, but since it is wider you seem to have to speak at the same volume anyway. ;)

There's even talk of permanent hearing loss among 777 crews.


Yup, the 777 cockpit is absolutely not quiet. It's 80-85 dB depending how fast you're flying - and of course the radio speaker must be set higher than that in order to hear it. It is quieter than the 747, though!

I wear earplugs in the cruise to reduce the background noise level to something safe. It helps with fatigue a bit too.
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achutchison
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:19 am

That's what I'd figure. The 330 is so quiet in the cabin it has to be amazing in the cockpit. I recall a klm pilot saying they could hear passing airplanes 1,000 feet overhead! So I take it the 350 is the quietest modern cockpit in the skies?
 
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CARST
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:47 am

I always read that the 707/727/737 cockpit was one of the loudest cockpits ever, mainly due to the high wind sounds and no real insulation. Now hearing the 777 is also that loud it gives the impression Boeing didn't care so much about the pilots' ears in the past.

How is that today? How does the 787 compare to 777/A330/A340/A350?
 
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:28 am

CARST wrote:
I always read that the 707/727/737 cockpit was one of the loudest cockpits ever, mainly due to the high wind sounds and no real insulation. Now hearing the 777 is also that loud it gives the impression Boeing didn't care so much about the pilots' ears in the past.

How is that today? How does the 787 compare to 777/A330/A340/A350?


I can tell you the 747-1/2/3/SP were the worst as far as noise goes. It made the 727 seem quiet. The 777/787 are quiet compared to the 747. The noise that is the worst is the airflow around the cockpit overhead escape hatch. The 400 was slightly quieter but by that time there was a soundproof pad that could be put in the hatch area.

I have not of anyone flying the 777 having permanent hearing loss. After 40 years of military and civilian flying my hearing is just a little off in my left ear and hasn't changed in my right ear.
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747classic
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:09 am

Operating the 747 series over 30 years, the first 5-7 years without the sound insulation cushion at the emergency escape hatch (an invention of Lufthansa-not Boeing !) , my hearing is somewhat impaired after retirement at certain frequencies.

During my medical, after the audiotest, the attending audio physician always came in with the same sentence : Hi Peter, I can see that your are still at the 747. (your audio dip is still present).
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:11 pm

achutchison wrote:
That's what I'd figure. The 330 is so quiet in the cabin it has to be amazing in the cockpit. I recall a klm pilot saying they could hear passing airplanes 1,000 feet overhead! So I take it the 350 is the quietest modern cockpit in the skies?


Yep. In the 330 we can easily hear planes passing overhead. The 350 is quieter but not by a massive amount. I think the rounder shape without the "notch" for the windshield helps. And the 350 doesn't have that fan or pump under the cockpit somewhere that drones on for most of the flight.

When you extend or retract the gear though, the 350 is hella loud! Sounds like bits of the plane are being ripped off together with some loud thumps. :D
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
gloom
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:29 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
When you extend or retract the gear though, the 350 is hella loud! Sounds like bits of the plane are being ripped off together with some loud thumps. :D


There are passengers in cabin who claim the same on flaps extension/retraction. Possibly an effect of low overall noise, that gear/flaps seem so loud.

Cheers,
Adam

PS. On one of my trips, 777 first leg, A350 second, I had a chance to compare. Yes, A350 is WAY quieter, except for takeoff, when engine "roar" sound is quite distinct.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:41 pm

gloom wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
When you extend or retract the gear though, the 350 is hella loud! Sounds like bits of the plane are being ripped off together with some loud thumps. :D


There are passengers in cabin who claim the same on flaps extension/retraction. Possibly an effect of low overall noise, that gear/flaps seem so loud.

Cheers,
Adam

PS. On one of my trips, 777 first leg, A350 second, I had a chance to compare. Yes, A350 is WAY quieter, except for takeoff, when engine "roar" sound is quite distinct.


On the 350, the gear is right under the cockpit instead of behind it like on the 330 or 777, which probably makes all the difference. I'll agree on the flaps. We actually hear the mechanical noises in the cockpit sometimes.
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767333ER
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:11 pm

Now the 777 uses the same noise section as the 767 which is similar to the 757. The pilot on this article describes the 757 as quite quiet along with the 767: http://gadling.com/2011/09/30/cockpit-chronicles-boeing-vs-boeing-a-few-pilots-weigh-in-on-t/

I find it interesting that the 777 is described so loud here because one would think it would be similar to the 767. On thing I have noticed is the equipment cooling system on the 777 seems quite loud. I also think it is interesting that the A330 has a quiet cockpit. When I look at it, it looks like it has a scaled up 737 nose with similar features like flat panel windows and sharper corners and angles. I guess they must have done something right in order to make it quiet, but at least they care unlike the people that had a hand in designing some other planes. One thing I have noticed about the A330 is that the cockpit seems narrower than the A320.
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achutchison
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:36 pm

Walking into a widebody cockpit is very striking because its so wide at the entrance, but quickly narrows towards the glareshield to put everything in reach of the pilots. That contrast is probably what you're seeing.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:31 am

767333ER wrote:
One thing I have noticed about the A330 is that the cockpit seems narrower than the A320.


Maybe from the outside. While there isn't much difference where the pilots sit, it is much wider at the back.

If you're in the seat, it is actually hard to tell the difference at first glance. The giveaway is the landing gear lights in a row on the 320, while they're in a triangle on the 330. Also the APU fire button is between the engine fire buttons on the 320, while it is on a separate panel on the 330. (On the 350 the button is between the engine ones again.)
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
thepinkmachine
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:52 am

I remember reading that sidestick-to-thrustlever width (i.e. the working space for the pilot) is exactly the same in all Airbii.

Main difference for me is that in the A330 the proper seat position seems lower than in the 320. Perhaps the glare shield is taller, or windscreen position is different. After all it is an A300 nose. The A320 seating position was actually more comfortable, with better forward view.

My impression with the 350 is that the cockpit is waaaay wider, though probably pilots working area is the same. As for the noise, haven't felt much difference, except for the nosewheel souds - it's bloody annoying and gives an impression of a smaller and less solid airplane than the 350 really is.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:50 am

thepinkmachine wrote:
I remember reading that sidestick-to-thrustlever width (i.e. the working space for the pilot) is exactly the same in all Airbii.

Main difference for me is that in the A330 the proper seat position seems lower than in the 320. Perhaps the glare shield is taller, or windscreen position is different. After all it is an A300 nose. The A320 seating position was actually more comfortable, with better forward view.

My impression with the 350 is that the cockpit is waaaay wider, though probably pilots working area is the same. As for the noise, haven't felt much difference, except for the nosewheel souds - it's bloody annoying and gives an impression of a smaller and less solid airplane than the 350 really is.


The 350 cockpit is indeed waaaay wider. However the sidestick is still in the same place compared to the seat. There's just more space outside that. The storage tray behind the sidestick isn't obscured by the window frame. The side console is larger. There are 3 cupholders instead of one (FTW!). There's a dedicated 1.5 litre water bottle holder. I can't reach the back of the middle window, while on the 330 I easily bump it by mistake.

You can also see the tug from the cockpit as the nose just slopes down past the windows. You typically can't with the 330 "notch".
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767333ER
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:29 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
767333ER wrote:
One thing I have noticed about the A330 is that the cockpit seems narrower than the A320.


Maybe from the outside. While there isn't much difference where the pilots sit, it is much wider at the back.

If you're in the seat, it is actually hard to tell the difference at first glance. The giveaway is the landing gear lights in a row on the 320, while they're in a triangle on the 330. Also the APU fire button is between the engine fire buttons on the 320, while it is on a separate panel on the 330. (On the 350 the button is between the engine ones again.)

I think it might be the way the windows are positioned. The side windows on the A330 are flat panels that seem to cut into cockpit space more than the A320' slight curved windows do.
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trnswrld
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:08 pm

Interesting topic. So I wonder why the big differences. Does it really just come down to aerodynamics or cockpit insulation, or a combination of both I assume?
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:56 am

trnswrld wrote:
Interesting topic. So I wonder why the big differences. Does it really just come down to aerodynamics or cockpit insulation, or a combination of both I assume?


Those two, plus ventilation sounds and to some degree other equipment, for example sounds coming from the galley.

For example there's a large air vent by the second observer seat that is annoyingly loud. You can't hear it very much from the front seats, but back there the sound of rushing air is pervasive.
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Clydenairways
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Re: A330/340 vs 777 Cockpit Noise

Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:03 pm

Anybody got any feedback on 787 cockpit noise?

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