FltAdmiralRitt
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:57 pm

MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:29 pm

For long haul business trips from south east Asia to London/Paris currently most have a fuel stop in Dubai,
and possibility a crew hours limit issue.

Could an MD90 be configured with extra fuel, and lower passenger count (say 90) to fly NON_STOP to from Singapore to London?
Cargo/Luggage would be restricted, as all cargo space would be occupied by fuel tanks.

This would be a type of Business Class Shuttle with Only 4 Seats across, No First Class. But a More extensive meal service.
and possibly a small meeting room out back (sound proofing against Rear Engines)

Among issues this idea would run into, is water landing emergency equipment and its weigh/space needs

It this even possible? , not asking about profitable.

Standard Range on MD90 is 2,085 NM.
 
Lukas757
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:59 pm

Re: MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:06 am

The anser is simple - no.
Have a look at the payload-range charts on page 3-3 in this document.
https://www.google.at/url?sa=t&source=w ... zgb45SCt_w
Even if you trade-off all payload for fuel in aux tanks, there is no chance you could make the ~6800NM SIN-LHR.
 
DeltaMD95
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Re: MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:15 am

Are there any AerSale MD90s remaining to conceivably pull off the OP's suggested mod?
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
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77west
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Re: MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:08 am

Even a 737ER would struggle with that. The DC9 / MD80 / MD90 families really were / are optimized for sub 2000nm sectors. They don't have the space for additional tanks etc to make this work.
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
B777LRF
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Re: MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:12 am

No. The wing and structure is fundamentally 'wrong' for long-haul operations, leading to a physical inability to perform the service you're suggesting. At a stretch it might make it to Delhi, but not back again without a stop on the way. Realistically you're looking at nothing further than Dubai, or thereabouts.

Unless, of course, you offer Boeing enough money to re-certify it to higher weights with a possible trade-off in lower MZFW against higher MTOW. Good luck with that ;)
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
DeltaMD95
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Re: MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:16 pm

77west wrote:
Even a 737ER would struggle with that. The DC9 / MD80 / MD90 families really were / are optimized for sub 2000nm sectors. They don't have the space for additional tanks etc to make this work.


How was the MD87 able to attain its relatively high max range? IIRC, the MD87 has a greater range over any other MD80/90/717 variant.
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
kcrwflyer
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Re: MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:00 pm

DeltaMD95 wrote:
77west wrote:
Even a 737ER would struggle with that. The DC9 / MD80 / MD90 families really were / are optimized for sub 2000nm sectors. They don't have the space for additional tanks etc to make this work.


How was the MD87 able to attain its relatively high max range? IIRC, the MD87 has a greater range over any other MD80/90/717 variant.


Same wing/engines/fuel capacity on a shorter and lighter airframe.
 
DeltaMD95
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Re: MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:32 am

Yes I understand that part. Still a bit surprising considering the MD83 had greater fuel capacity and payload, and the MD90 in 717 had more fuel-efficient engines.
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
DeltaMD95
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Re: MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:03 am

DeltaMD95 wrote:
Are there any AerSale MD90s remaining to conceivably pull off the OP's suggested mod?


Was hoping someone would know the answer to this question.
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
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MD80
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Re: MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:24 pm

DeltaMD95 wrote:
77west wrote:
Even a 737ER would struggle with that. The DC9 / MD80 / MD90 families really were / are optimized for sub 2000nm sectors. They don't have the space for additional tanks etc to make this work.


How was the MD87 able to attain its relatively high max range? IIRC, the MD87 has a greater range over any other MD80/90/717 variant.


Hello ;-)

The optional MD-87 ER (with a maximum take-off weight of 67,8 tons) was able to operate rather long routes with nearly a full payload (IIRC with 133 passengers + baggage and with full fuel tanks). For example, Austrian Airlines operated two MD-87 ERs and Aero Lloyd also used their 137-seat MD-87s on long routes. This was (at the time) one hallmark of the MD-87 - the ability to operate with full fuel tanks and nearly full payload. The MD-87 SR (Short Range) was another version with much lower mtow KG and were optimized to operate from shorter runways with full payload. The characteristics were fine enough for operaters like TDA (later JAS) and others to select the MD-87 for flights from and to airports with relatively short runways and/or airports under hot/high conditions.

Other operaters of the MD-83 and MD-87 operated them often with fewer seats (and thus more comfort) and some of them used them on longer flights on a regular basis. As long as the runways were long enough for the MD-83, several operators used them on rather long non-stop flights.

Regards
Dedicated for the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95 ehhh...Boeing 717, and DC-9: http://www.MD-80.com
 
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77west
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Re: MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:34 pm

MD80 wrote:
DeltaMD95 wrote:
77west wrote:
Even a 737ER would struggle with that. The DC9 / MD80 / MD90 families really were / are optimized for sub 2000nm sectors. They don't have the space for additional tanks etc to make this work.


How was the MD87 able to attain its relatively high max range? IIRC, the MD87 has a greater range over any other MD80/90/717 variant.


Hello ;-)

The optional MD-87 ER (with a maximum take-off weight of 67,8 tons) was able to operate rather long routes with nearly a full payload (IIRC with 133 passengers + baggage and with full fuel tanks). For example, Austrian Airlines operated two MD-87 ERs and Aero Lloyd also used their 137-seat MD-87s on long routes. This was (at the time) one hallmark of the MD-87 - the ability to operate with full fuel tanks and nearly full payload. The MD-87 SR (Short Range) was another version with much lower mtow KG and were optimized to operate from shorter runways with full payload. The characteristics were fine enough for operaters like TDA (later JAS) and others to select the MD-87 for flights from and to airports with relatively short runways and/or airports under hot/high conditions.

Other operaters of the MD-83 and MD-87 operated them often with fewer seats (and thus more comfort) and some of them used them on longer flights on a regular basis. As long as the runways were long enough for the MD-83, several operators used them on rather long non-stop flights.

Regards


How long is "long" though? I would think, for example, US transcon 5ish hours would be "long" for this type of aircraft. According to the range graph for the MD87 with zero payload and full tanks it would do about 3000nm so about 6.5 hours.

For the MD90-30 it shows just less than 3,000nm with zero payload. So for what the OP is asking, just will not work, even with aux tanks there is no way this is ever going to be an aircraft capable of the 6,000nm that SIN-LON will need. You would effectively need to more than DOUBLE the fuel capacity, IE, find space for an additional 20-25 tons of fuel... and thats all assuming zero payload...
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
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MD80
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Re: MD90 RECONFIGURATION POSSIBILITY QUESTION

Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:33 pm

I quickly looked into a brochure once published by Aero Lloyd in 1989 and here are the data provided by this defunct company regarding their MD-83/-87s:

MD-83: Range with full payload (167 passengers) 4260 Km, range with full fuel tanks + 155 passengers = 4491 Km

MD-87: Range with full payload (137 passengers) 5346 Km, range with full fuel tanks + 133 passengers = 5386 Km

Historically interesting is the fact that some loyal MD-80-operators pushed McDonnell Douglas to develop the MD-83. For example, it was very important for Finnair to cover leisure routes with MD-83s and their routes from Finland to the Canary Islands were at the very edge of the capability of their MD-83. In the 1980s until approx. the mid-1990s, a number of Spanish MD-80-operators used their MD-83s to connect Northern Europe with Spain/Canary Islands. Nevertheless, the emergence of the enhanced Boeing 737-800 and Airbus A320 (with optionally higher mtow Kg) displaced the MD-83 in those markets.

Regarding the OP and MD-90. The MD-90 was never intended for such missions, not even the MD90-30IGW and MD90-30ER. The design-features of the MD-90 are not suited for such long flights, including aerodynamic features of the wings (which are in no way competitive with the wings of the Boeing 737NG and A32X).

Regards
Dedicated for the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95 ehhh...Boeing 717, and DC-9: http://www.MD-80.com

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