Flighty
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Out-and-back same flight number?

Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:27 pm

I am seeing some Delta mainline flights out-and-back from a hubs ATL, DTW and MSP with same flight number.

Is this new? I thought flight numbers can go onward but they can't go back.
 
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litz
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Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:42 pm

Are they landing somewhere else, or returning to origin? if latter, they're probably MX flights ... those are all maintenance bases.
 
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SaveFerris
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Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:45 pm

Most American Eagle (Envoy) flights changed to the same number to and from the hubs a few years ago. It also looks like mainline AA does as well. I actually liked the change, saved me a couple of button pushes!
 
Woodreau
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Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:00 pm

Flighty wrote:
I thought flight numbers can go onward but they can't go back.


Where is this rule/regulation/law published?
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
113312
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Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:05 pm

Not common, but it pops up from time to time at various airlines.
 
Flighty
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Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:29 pm

Woodreau wrote:
Flighty wrote:
I thought flight numbers can go onward but they can't go back.


Where is this rule/regulation/law published?


You're right, it seems like it was just a practice that they reversed. You can't allow two "Delta 1103" in the air at the same time, so that's a law. So, if leg 1 is delayed, you can't go and save leg 2 with another aircraft. Small price to pay I guess.

Also thought you can't register and sell, in effect, a 1-stop flight MSP-MSP with a stop in FLL That 1-stop itinerary back to MSP doesn't make sense. So yeah it would be selling sightseeing flights. Historically, onward flights were possible to purchase.

I used to schedule flights myself a long time ago. Seems like the mega-carriers ran out of acceptable flight numbers in the recent mergers, so they did this.
Last edited by Flighty on Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Adispatcher
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Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:49 pm

Flighty wrote:
Woodreau wrote:
Flighty wrote:
I thought flight numbers can go onward but they can't go back.


Where is this rule/regulation/law published?


I guess the operative law here is you can't allow two "Delta 1103" in the air at the same time. So, if leg 1 is delayed, you can't go and save leg 2 with another aircraft. Small price to pay I guess.

I also thought you can't register and sell, in effect, a 1-stop flight MSP-MSP with a stop in FLL That 1-stop itinerary doesn't make sense. Historically, onward flights were possible to purchase. So, I thought it just wasn't done but here I found it is done.

I used to schedule flights myself a long time ago.


You can have two aircraft with the same call-sign in the air at the same time as long as they will not be in the same airspace concurrently. It happens more frequently than you may think, which isn't to say that happens frequently. Also, the flight number that you see on the airline website or Flightaware is not necessarily the call-sign that they are operating under.
Last edited by Adispatcher on Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Flighty
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Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:56 pm

Adispatcher wrote:
Flighty wrote:
Woodreau wrote:

Where is this rule/regulation/law published?


I guess the operative law here is you can't allow two "Delta 1103" in the air at the same time. So, if leg 1 is delayed, you can't go and save leg 2 with another aircraft. Small price to pay I guess.

I also thought you can't register and sell, in effect, a 1-stop flight MSP-MSP with a stop in FLL That 1-stop itinerary doesn't make sense. Historically, onward flights were possible to purchase. So, I thought it just wasn't done but here I found it is done.

I used to schedule flights myself a long time ago.


You can have two aircraft with the same call-sign in the air at the same time as long as they will not be in the same airspace concurrently. It happens more frequently than you may think. Also, the flight number that you see on the airline website or Flightaware is not necessarily the call-sign that they are operating under.


:scratchchin: Good to know... you really surprised me with that info. Sorry for editing the post after you quoted it; another dumb habit.
 
Adispatcher
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Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:00 pm

Flighty wrote:
Adispatcher wrote:
Flighty wrote:

I guess the operative law here is you can't allow two "Delta 1103" in the air at the same time. So, if leg 1 is delayed, you can't go and save leg 2 with another aircraft. Small price to pay I guess.

I also thought you can't register and sell, in effect, a 1-stop flight MSP-MSP with a stop in FLL That 1-stop itinerary doesn't make sense. Historically, onward flights were possible to purchase. So, I thought it just wasn't done but here I found it is done.

I used to schedule flights myself a long time ago.


You can have two aircraft with the same call-sign in the air at the same time as long as they will not be in the same airspace concurrently. It happens more frequently than you may think. Also, the flight number that you see on the airline website or Flightaware is not necessarily the call-sign that they are operating under.


:scratchchin: Good to know... you really surprised me with that info. Sorry for editing the post after you quoted it; another dumb habit.


I do the same.

Running the same call-sign in the air doesn't happen overly frequently, but it does happen. For example a through flight on two different aircraft. The first flight may have been delayed, but not enough to cause a conflict with the second leg in the same area. Amending a call-sign is rather easy, and it's possible to do last minute if you think a conflict may happen. Usually, you'd want to be safe and just amend the call-sign at the first hint of a problem.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:57 am

AA is running a lot of out and back same flight number flights. I've been on a couple DFW-SEA flights that go back to dfw with the same flight number. See with DFW-LAS.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
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asqx
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Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:41 am

Delta has been doing that for years. Through ticketing (HUB-XXX-HUB) is prohibited and helps to conserve flight numbers for scheduling and planning purposes. Usually (at least at my DL Connection carrier) both legs are operated with the same plane which helps avoid multiple flights with the same call sign.
 
wn676
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Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:56 pm

Flighty wrote:
You're right, it seems like it was just a practice that they reversed. You can't allow two "Delta 1103" in the air at the same time, so that's a law. So, if leg 1 is delayed, you can't go and save leg 2 with another aircraft. Small price to pay I guess.


A lot of times in the U.S. when you see callsigns with a letter suffix (P seems to be the most common), that tends to indicate a broken through-flight. Happens a lot at hubs where they use the same flight number through the hub as opposed to an out-and-back. Say for example you have AAL557 operating LAX-PHX-BOS and the LAX-PHX segment is significantly delayed; if they want to op the PHX-BOS flight on-time with another aircraft, the callsign for the second leg becomes AAL557P.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
geologyrocks
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:05 am

Re: Out-and-back same flight number?

Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:20 am

What's really annoying is usually when they decide to add a letter to their call sign, whoever it is, whether it's the dispatcher or someone else...they always seem to choose Delta. AAL557D. Now, seriously - out of 26 options, you choose the only one that would confuse others.

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