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climbing230
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F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:01 am

Hello everyone , Good morning from Hyderabad.Since all airlines mull on fuel savings and cranking in more seats so i was curious how much of extra weight (overall) is added to the weight of the aircraft due to the material used in cabin refurbishment process for First and Business class?

I see that they look pretty heavy, the upholsteries / wood like panels bulky seats, Shower etc.?

Regards
-Pramod :)
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traindoc
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:07 am

The weight is offset by the fares in F and C. However, these seats and suites are designed to minimize weight, as are Y seats.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:11 am

The seats are lighter than they might appear, and people in them are often paying 10x or more the price of an economy seat on the same flight.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:15 am

The first class and business class seats are heavier. They can weight 150-300 lbs each when fully motorized and with a full electronics and entertainment package. The weight is offset by higher revenue. Business class cabins have lower density seating though so there is less weight in business class than economy. Even though economy seats are light, the seating is densely packed and a set of three seats with people in them weigh more than a business class seat with a single person.
 
smi0006
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:00 am

I think a good example is the Air NZ premium economy space seat on their 77W they are very very heavy- if the weight was for a J or F seat the yield would justify it weight. For premium economy it's simply not worth the extra weight and they are removing them for a more traditional seat.

I think this demonstrates why we haven't see too much innovation in the W/Y space, W is the point where yield can't justify weight. J becomes the point where weight can be justified, and doesn't on carrier - bars, showers, bathroom fitting etc can.
 
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climbing230
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:01 am

LAX772LR wrote:
The seats are lighter than they might appear, and people in them are often paying 10x or more the price of an economy seat on the same flight.


:) Yes very true , but i had booked a window seat why this seams to be an aisle? ;)
Wings take you higher
 
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climbing230
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:03 am

smi0006 wrote:
I think a good example is the Air NZ premium economy space seat on their 77W they are very very heavy- if the weight was for a J or F seat the yield would justify it weight. For premium economy it's simply not worth the extra weight and they are removing them for a more traditional seat.

I think this demonstrates why we haven't see too much innovation in the W/Y space, W is the point where yield can't justify weight. J becomes the point where weight can be justified, and doesn't on carrier - bars, showers, bathroom fitting etc can.


Now i got a clear picture as to why certain carriers prefer premium Y while others simply opt out :) Thank you for the acknowledgement.
Wings take you higher
 
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climbing230
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:07 am

traindoc wrote:
The weight is offset by the fares in F and C. However, these seats and suites are designed to minimize weight, as are Y seats.



Yes absolutely i was also discussing the same question this morning at the airport and they also told me the same point.
:)
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chornedsnorkack
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:15 pm

It's not just fares that outweigh the weight of F/J seats. It is also their number.
In a widebody, save 767, a 160 inch section of fuselage would have 8...10 Y seats abreast, and at 32 inch pitch, 5 rows. Total 40...50 seats.
Same 160 inch section could accommodate just 2 rows of full flat F seats at 80 inch pitch, and typically 4 abreast, so 8 F seats.
What weighs more: 40...50 individually light Y seats, or 8 F seats?
 
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77west
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:54 am

smi0006 wrote:
I think a good example is the Air NZ premium economy space seat on their 77W they are very very heavy- if the weight was for a J or F seat the yield would justify it weight. For premium economy it's simply not worth the extra weight and they are removing them for a more traditional seat.

I think this demonstrates why we haven't see too much innovation in the W/Y space, W is the point where yield can't justify weight. J becomes the point where weight can be justified, and doesn't on carrier - bars, showers, bathroom fitting etc can.


The first 77W just went in for modification in the last week.

Was an interesting concept, but just didnt work.
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
NameOmitted
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:48 am

In terms of weight and balance, if location of the various cabins was chosen by density rather than proximity for boarding, would they be in the same place?
 
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77west
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:00 am

NameOmitted wrote:
In terms of weight and balance, if location of the various cabins was chosen by density rather than proximity for boarding, would they be in the same place?


No. They would put F / J / W close to the center, over the wing box, and the light Y seats at either end.

The A340-600 suffered quite a bit due to heavy F and J in the front of the cabin, due to this issue.

And it is not so much proximity for boarding, as it is tradition and the ability to have F and J go left, and Y go right (Yes I know, not in all cabin layouts)
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:07 am

77west wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
In terms of weight and balance, if location of the various cabins was chosen by density rather than proximity for boarding, would they be in the same place?


No. They would put F / J / W close to the center, over the wing box, and the light Y seats at either end.

The A340-600 suffered quite a bit due to heavy F and J in the front of the cabin, due to this issue.

And it is not so much proximity for boarding, as it is tradition and the ability to have F and J go left, and Y go right (Yes I know, not in all cabin layouts)


Indeed. At many airports it goes one step further. F and J board through one door and the rest through another.

Back in the days of yore, I believe first class was in the back, since boarding was from the back.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
LH707330
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Re: F & J class cabin - Extra weight

Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:42 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
77west wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
In terms of weight and balance, if location of the various cabins was chosen by density rather than proximity for boarding, would they be in the same place?


No. They would put F / J / W close to the center, over the wing box, and the light Y seats at either end.

The A340-600 suffered quite a bit due to heavy F and J in the front of the cabin, due to this issue.

And it is not so much proximity for boarding, as it is tradition and the ability to have F and J go left, and Y go right (Yes I know, not in all cabin layouts)


Indeed. At many airports it goes one step further. F and J board through one door and the rest through another.

Back in the days of yore, I believe first class was in the back, since boarding was from the back.

That's because in the old propliners, that was the most quiet part. When jets came, that switched. Also, it's better to let the F pax off first.

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