...and not just slipstream noise, but literally "bells and whistles."

A buddy of mine just transitioned off the Mad Dog to the 737. He said he actually prefers the MD-80 to the 73, but the one thing he doesn't miss were all of the annoying aural indications.

What about cockpits on other types?

The B727 was very noisy, 747 perhaps even noisier.



Interesting to know THE noisiest, thinking the Ford Tri Motor would be close.

The 737's trimwheels are actually quite loud. I don't find it unpleasant, but I'm sure that some people would.

This type:



With the engines placed right beside the cockpit, the Piper Seneca is the noisiest aircraft I have experienced, probably not helped by the fact that it had the old 2-bladed props and sputtering old engines. Thank god for noise-cancelling Bose headsets.

VSMUT wrote:

This type:

With the engines placed right beside the cockpit, the Piper Seneca is the noisiest aircraft I have experienced, probably not helped by the fact that it had the old 2-bladed props and sputtering old engines. Thank god for noise-cancelling Bose headsets.

Oh good God, tell me about it. I have migraines to this day from my hours in that aircraft.

I've also noticed that if I'm in the first few rows of a Boeing or Airbus, I always hear the auto-pilot disengage alert (Airbus' is far more pleasant IMHO). And the Boeing alert is significantly louder (and obnoxious IMHO). That must be loud as hell on the flight deck.

Max Q wrote:

The B727 was very noisy

Huh?? What did you say???

Max Q wrote:

The B727 was very noisy, 747 perhaps even noisier.



Interesting to know THE noisiest, thinking the Ford Tri Motor would be close.

I've flown in two jet cockpits, ERJ145 and 747. Both are pretty loud, though I didn't think the 747 was as bad as some say. Or at least I didn't find it too unbearable.

tb727 wrote:

Huh?? What did you say???

I always heard that the 737 was extremely noisy. And as this is the same nose for the 707 and 727, shouldn't it be the same for these two planes?

CARST wrote:

tb727 wrote:

Huh?? What did you say???

I always heard that the 737 was extremely noisy. And as this is the same nose for the 707 and 727, shouldn't it be the same for these two planes?

I would think engine noise varies significantly between the three. With the 727, the noise is most likely just wind rushing by, while on the 707 and early 737s I would imagine that the engines would be clearly audible on top of the wind.

The noise when you engage an autopilot on the A330 is surprisingly loud. Sounds like the credit knocker in a pinball game. It's not an intentional warning, just a mechanical noise. We also sometimes get a loud "pop" under the side window during the climb as the fuselage reacts to the pressure difference. Neither of those will wake up the dead (or those flying during their circadian low) like the master warning bell.

Apart from the bell, the loudest noise is when the door's latches are a bit looser than usual and people pull it closed with the normally required force. SLAMMMM!

The loudest voice alert in a cockpit I ever heard came from the RAAS (Runway Awareness and Advisory System) on the A330. We are well used to the standard call-outs "Approaching RWY XY" and "On RWY XY".
There is a third warning call-out "ON TAXIWAY! ON TAXIWAY!" when the aircraft speed is above 40kts on a taxiway in order to avoid a erroneous departure from a taxiway. Until about a year ago the most northern part of RWY22R in JFK was designed as taxiway only but got redesigned as runway after some construction work. Before the database of the RAAS got updated we were warned by briefing card about the possibility of a triggering of the "on taxiway"-warning when taking-off from full length. So we were prepared and had rebriefed it again before departure - but when the alert was actually triggered it was so loud it could freeze your blood. Even the F/A's in the galley were freightened and asked about it after departure.

The 757 cockpit has way to much air conditioning noise, and gets worse as the aircraft age. 767s are far better. I hated the clunk-clunk-clunk of the 737 grinder wheel (trim wheel).

This may be off topic and I am not a pilot, but I do have hearing damage. I swear by Mack's soft foam earplugs. A wonderful, cheap product. They cut decibels by 20-30, but still allow you to hear what is going on. Might pilots use these? It would prevent hearing damage. If you cut the foam down, nobody can tell you are even wearing them.

Just a thought, if anybody is suffering. Noise reduction is nice but I find this is a stronger measure.

In terms of radio, you can just crank the volume (or the car stereo). It lets you optimize your noise environment.

This might be a more interesting discussion if we nominated the quietest cockpits in service.

For starters, although out of service, the L1011 would get my vote, followed by the MD11 and G550's, Boeing cockpits are both noisy and uncomfortable IMO.

Flighty wrote:

This may be off topic and I am not a pilot, but I do have hearing damage. I swear by Mack's soft foam earplugs. A wonderful, cheap product. They cut decibels by 20-30, but still allow you to hear what is going on. Might pilots use these? It would prevent hearing damage. If you cut the foam down, nobody can tell you are even wearing them.

Just a thought, if anybody is suffering. Noise reduction is nice but I find this is a stronger measure.

In terms of radio, you can just crank the volume (or the car stereo). It lets you optimize your noise environment.

Not really an option in a multi-crew cockpit. I could turn up the radios, but with ear plugs I'd have a hard time hearing the other pilot.

I do use ear plugs when I'm on my rest.

The L1011 was very quiet, maybe the quietest cockpit of its time, MD80 cockpit was quiet too but ours were not maintained that well and
seemed like we always had a squealing seal around the windows.


You're right about the AC airflow noise in the 757 NF, that was really obnoxious, as you say the 767 is much better.


I've heard the 787 cockpit is very quiet

If you are talking chimes etc, then for me the 777 takes the cake. The fxxxing incessant bing bong would drive me nuts. During the cockpit set up one day I think I lost count at about 17 chimes.

For pure nose levels I think you would struggle to top a Britten Norman Islander. Thankfully the Trislander was much quieter (for the pilot)

The early build A320s have very noisy cockpits with (almost) extreme air conditioning/cooling noise. When I ride on one now, I chuckle to think that in the 1993 when I first flew one, I marvelled at how much quieter it was than the B737-200 I flew before it!

Later A320 series cockpits are so quiet by comparison, it is almost distracting. The LCD screens require far less cooling than the CRTs before them.

Not a pilot here, but among the cockpits I've sat it, the two noisiest ones that spring to mind are the ERJ-145 and the 757...
The old BAC-111 had a very quiet cockpit, with only marginal wind noise, and absolutely no remote trace of engine sound..not even on take-off...

Old flat plate windshields were generally much more noisy than contoured windshields. The original HS 125 had a flat plate and efforts to decrease cockpit noise were made by adding a fairing above the windshield. Hatfield eventually adopted the contoured windshield with the HS 125-800.

Whats ridiculous about the 757 cockpit is it could be a LOT quieter, airflow and engine noise is quite low
its the incredibly noisy air conditioning and ventilation system that makes all the racket and it's not just noisy but annoying, producing
deluges of cold air in parts of the cockpit.


The 767 is a quantum leap improvement.

The MD-90 is absolutely silent, until Bitchin' Betty screams at you.

Starlionblue wrote:

The noise when you engage an autopilot on the A330 is surprisingly loud. Sounds like the credit knocker in a pinball game. It's not an intentional warning, just a mechanical noise.

So, you get that noise both when you engage, and disengage the autopilot? I'm guessing it's the "chirp-chirp-chirp-knock-knock-knock"?

When you mentioned that it's a mechanical noise, what exactly does that mean?

richcam427 wrote:

The MD-90 is absolutely silent, until Bitchin' Betty screams at you.

What, pray tell, is Bitchin' Betty?

rjsampson wrote:

Starlionblue wrote:

The noise when you engage an autopilot on the A330 is surprisingly loud. Sounds like the credit knocker in a pinball game. It's not an intentional warning, just a mechanical noise.

So, you get that noise both when you engage, and disengage the autopilot? I'm guessing it's the "chirp-chirp-chirp-knock-knock-knock"?

When you mentioned that it's a mechanical noise, what exactly does that mean?

richcam427 wrote:

The MD-90 is absolutely silent, until Bitchin' Betty screams at you.

What, pray tell, is Bitchin' Betty?

The autopilot engagement noise is a mechanical noise as in it is the sound of a mechanism working. I think it has to do with the sidesticks. It is a side effect, and not a purposefully generated sound like a master warning.

Disengaging the autopilot leads first to the autopilot disengage sound ("chirp-chirp-chirp"), which you cancel by pressing the instinctive disconnect button again. Then you typically (but not always) get the "knock knock knock", which indicates a mode change not commanded by the pilot. For example on final approach disengaging the autopilot makes the system revert from "Cat 3 Dual" to "Cat 1".

Bitchin' Betty is the voice telling you to do stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx7-yvXf6f8

As much as I love the HS-748s, you'll most definitely want hearing protection on in the flight deck, those darts are only a couple meters away and are quite literally screaming at you the entire flight. Having done a whole whack of engine runs and dozens of jump seat rides in both the 748 and the 737-200, the 737-200 cockpit is almost silent compared to the 748, and as for the -300/400/500 it's hard for a 748 guy to tell if the engines are even running or not without looking down at the indications.

Starlionblue wrote:

rjsampson wrote:

Starlionblue wrote:

The noise when you engage an autopilot on the A330 is surprisingly loud. Sounds like the credit knocker in a pinball game. It's not an intentional warning, just a mechanical noise.

Clearly, your envelope of operation falls within the "Danger Zone!" I hope your co-pilot has "man hands" to get you out of trouble.

richcam427 wrote:

The MD-90 is absolutely silent, until Bitchin' Betty screams at you.

What, pray tell, is Bitchin' Betty?

OK, I got Bitchn' Betty.

Starlionblue: Your cover has been exposed. You, Pam, (and maybe Krieger?) are clearly Flight Attendants that you "work with".

I did some manual reading. When you connect the autopilots the breakout force on the sidestick and pedals is increased. The mechanism must be what produces the credit knocker.

rjsampson wrote:

Starlionblue: Your cover has been exposed. You, Pam, (and maybe Krieger?) are clearly Flight Attendants that you "work with".

I flew the Embraer 145 for 7 years and we all complained about the noise to the manufacturer who had frequent "road shows" in our crew rooms. They said it's coz our airline was cheap and didn't want to buy the expensive and heavy carpeting and insulation package they offered for the Legacy business jet variant. We had to wear David Clark headsets at all times to protect our hearing, and sanity!

But the noise really ratcheted up only when we accelerated above Mach 0.7 or so, like stepping into the devil's nightclub, and Lo and behold when you see the latest Legacies coming off he production line 15 years later, - a row of vortex generators magically appear above the cockpit windows! The manufacturer knew that using the old Brasilia (EMB120) nose section on an aircraft that cruised 200kts faster produced a transonic shockwave right obove our heads in the cockpit where there is a sharp curve in the fuselage, but I guess for product liability reasons (thousands of pilots suffering permanent hearing damage) never corrected this on the airliner version.

That shockwave was like a power drill ripping into the skin just above our heads, oh how I wish I could afford noise cancelling headsets in my meager "regional" salary back then!!

By comparison, the 777 I fly now is like a silent dream, particularly on the -300 where we are further from the engines. Folks tell me that the Triple is a noisy airplane, but I don't think so. Maybe coz my hearing was softened up by all those sectors on the -145?

I'm curious about the new generation nose designs of the A350 and 787 reminiscent of the Comet and Caravelle. How do they fare noise wise?

aeropix wrote:

I flew the Embraer 145 for 7 years and we all complained about the noise to the manufacturer who had frequent "road shows" in our crew rooms. They said it's coz our airline was cheap and didn't want to buy the expensive and heavy carpeting and insulation package they offered for the Legacy business jet variant. We had to wear David Clark headsets at all times to protect our hearing, and sanity!

But the noise really ratcheted up only when we accelerated above Mach 0.7 or so, like stepping into the devil's nightclub, and Lo and behold when you see the latest Legacies coming off he production line 15 years later, - a row of vortex generators magically appear above the cockpit windows! The manufacturer knew that using the old Brasilia (EMB120) nose section on an aircraft that cruised 200kts faster produced a transonic shockwave right obove our heads in the cockpit where there is a sharp curve in the fuselage, but I guess for product liability reasons (thousands of pilots suffering permanent hearing damage) never corrected this on the airliner version.

That shockwave was like a power drill ripping into the skin just above our heads, oh how I wish I could afford noise cancelling headsets in my meager "regional" salary back then!!

By comparison, the 777 I fly now is like a silent dream, particularly on the -300 where we are further from the engines. Folks tell me that the Triple is a noisy airplane, but I don't think so. Maybe coz my hearing was softened up by all those sectors on the -145?

Part of the reason one of its nicknames is the WSCOD. Was waiting for some one to bring up the 145.

Max Q wrote:

The L1011 was very quiet, maybe the quietest cockpit of its time, MD80 cockpit was quiet too but ours were not maintained that well and
seemed like we always had a squealing seal around the windows.


You're right about the AC airflow noise in the 757 NF, that was really obnoxious, as you say the 767 is much better.


I've heard the 787 cockpit is very quiet

When did Continental retire the MD-80?

VIflyer wrote:

aeropix wrote:

Part of the reason one of its nicknames is the WSCOD. Was waiting for some one to bring up the 145.

Vlflyer,

I'm sure you figured that one of us would have to Google WSCOD. Found the definition on Urban Dictionary. Priceless:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=WSCOD

May be offtopic, but i find the A320 series Windshield wipers really noisy and annoying during opeartions.

Hi: You never had chance to flight in an IL-62M's cockpit, Do You?
Very strong aerodynamic noise, owe to cockpit desig + noise from a VHF antenna on top of cockpit + a/c condition noise.

Rgds

Anything with the old 707 nose is quite loud. I've heard similar about the cockpit on the ERJ-145. The E-Jets have an obnoxious fan noise.

longhauler wrote:

The early build A320s have very noisy cockpits with (almost) extreme air conditioning/cooling noise. When I ride on one now, I chuckle to think that in the 1993 when I first flew one, I marvelled at how much quieter it was than the B737-200 I flew before it!

Later A320 series cockpits are so quiet by comparison, it is almost distracting. The LCD screens require far less cooling than the CRTs before them.

I've never been in an A320 cockpit, but I totally can agree on that because I've noticed this same thing in the cabin on my many times flying in Air Canada's A320s vs the 319s and 321s. The old A320s have a loud packs system compared to the newer A319s and A321s and the few newer A320s all of which have nearly silent packs.

767333ER wrote:

Anything with the old 707 nose is quite loud.

707 .... : What I always wanted to know : is the 747 cockpit "new" or adapted from some existing layout (inside, outside) ?

The old A320s have a loud packs system compared to the newer A319s and A321s and the few newer A320s all of which have nearly silent packs.

The A320 is an uncompetitive 1980ties design that never saw any updates.

SCNR

The NEO is whisper quiet compared to the 320 CEO. Still has the barking dog tho.

The 145 is annoying, every warning and caution is dumb, if it meets the criteria, ding, ding, and ding, There's no thought for phase of flight. Of course the cabin door is open, we're at the gate, master warning ding. Of course there low engine oil pressure, the engine is shutdown normally. But there's no warning for engine running with the master fadec switch off. It got to the point where I just ignored every warning or caution that the emb-145 generated.

There was an email one day warning about making sure the engine was shutdown before leaving the aircraft. Because I guess a crew left the engine running because they missed it amidst all the other nuisance warnings in the emb-145 cockpit.

Woodreau wrote:

The 145 is annoying, every warning and caution is dumb, if it meets the criteria, ding, ding, and ding, There's no thought for phase of flight. Of course the cabin door is open, we're at the gate, master warning ding. Of course there low engine oil pressure, the engine is shutdown normally.

Seems just as annoying as modern audio and video equipment that always has to make a beep when you press a key, a button or select a menu item.

Woodreau wrote:

The NEO is whisper quiet compared to the 320 CEO. Still has the barking dog tho.

The 145 is annoying, every warning and caution is dumb, if it meets the criteria, ding, ding, and ding, There's no thought for phase of flight. Of course the cabin door is open, we're at the gate, master warning ding. Of course there low engine oil pressure, the engine is shutdown normally. But there's no warning for engine running with the master fadec switch off. It got to the point where I just ignored every warning or caution that the emb-145 generated.

There was an email one day warning about making sure the engine was shutdown before leaving the aircraft. Because I guess a crew left the engine running because they missed it amidst all the other nuisance warnings in the emb-145 cockpit.

That used to happen quite regularly on the B727 and MD80, the engines were barely audible from the cockpit, one of our Captains was surprised to get a call at his hotel some time after checking in on a layover.


It was a mechanic calling from the airport: 'just wanted to know if you still need that engine running for any reason ?'



Not a career enhancing move..

The noisiest aircraft I’ve experienced is the Cessna 337 (or fixed gear variant the 336). Not only are both engines directly mounted to the cabin, the rear engine is running in the turbulence of the front engine further adding to the noise and vibration.

MaxQ

Did he manage to blag it, or was it a meeting with the Chief Pilot.

VSMUT wrote:

This type:



With the engines placed right beside the cockpit, the Piper Seneca is the noisiest aircraft I have experienced, probably not helped by the fact that it had the old 2-bladed props and sputtering old engines. Thank god for noise-cancelling Bose headsets.

Dont diss the old gal mehn!

Seneca is a fun bird to fly. Except when it does that put-put thing once in a while - guaranteed to launch your balls into your skull!

Guess thats not much of a problem in the West where you get good quality fuel.

The old "whistling tit" would have to be up there.

bennett123 wrote:

MaxQ

Did he manage to blag it, or was it a meeting with the Chief Pilot.

Do not know, if the information was relayed to management though a meeting would have been arranged.

Woodreau wrote:

The NEO is whisper quiet compared to the 320 CEO. Still has the barking dog tho.

The 145 is annoying, every warning and caution is dumb, if it meets the criteria, ding, ding, and ding, There's no thought for phase of flight. Of course the cabin door is open, we're at the gate, master warning ding. Of course there low engine oil pressure, the engine is shutdown normally. But there's no warning for engine running with the master fadec switch off. It got to the point where I just ignored every warning or caution that the emb-145 generated.

There was an email one day warning about making sure the engine was shutdown before leaving the aircraft. Because I guess a crew left the engine running because they missed it amidst all the other nuisance warnings in the emb-145 cockpit.

Thats a really poor design philosophy, problem being if you have constant alerts and warnings going off you tend to start ignoring them, then
when you really do need to take notice..


The SF340 was the same, warnings going off all the time for the most innocuous reasons, not good.

Speaking of the Bus, this is an interesting piece:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive ... rticle-top

Sorry for the thread drift.

Hello:
On top.may be,the IL-62M!
(Ask Santa María radio Station!!!)
Rgds

BravoOne wrote:

Speaking of the Bus, this is an interesting piece:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive ... rticle-top

Sorry for the thread drift.

As usual for the Daily Mail, riddled with inaccuracies, vagueness and hyperbole. Just to cite a few examples:

In the Nineties, when fly-by-wire was in its infancy, several Airbuses crashed because of conditions that hadn’t been programmed into the software.
No examples mentioned, probably because the author couldn't find any such cases, because there aren't any.

In an A330 cockpit, everything is computerised, and when the system is working properly – under what Airbus terms ‘normal law’ – it should be impossible for the crew to make a mistake.
This is news to me. Rest assured that mistakes can be made.

It’s possible for the pilots to override the computer, effectively switching to manual control – what Airbus calls ‘direct law’.
a) He forgot about alternate law and b) the fact that reversion to degraded laws is automatic. It is not something we would make happen on purpose, except in the sim for training.

The captain tried to re-engage both the primary and back-up autopilots, but to no avail. Messages suggested the computers were going haywire.
There is no primary and backup. There is Autopilot 1 and Autopilot 2.

The last ECAM warning recorded by the ACARS, at 2.14am, is the most chilling. It simply said, ‘ADVISORY CABIN VERTICAL SPEED’. In other words, the plane was heading downwards, with uncontrolled rapidity.
That's not what "ADVISORY CABIN VERTICAL SPEED" means.

Thanks for the reply. That was sent to by an ardent Boeing guy and not knowing anything about the Bus I was not able to respond. Your comments are appreciated. I suspected the Daily Mail might only be good for the bottom of a bird cage.

Thanks again

Apprentice wrote:

Hi: You never had chance to flight in an IL-62M's cockpit, Do You?
Very strong aerodynamic noise, owe to cockpit desig + noise from a VHF antenna on top of cockpit + a/c condition noise.

Rgds

I haven't been in the cockpit but the first class section in the IL62 is remarkably silent. I don't know about any other plane which is that silent in the passenger cabin! But I guess it could also be the plane with the largest distance between engines and seatrow #1.