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Starlionblue
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Wed May 17, 2017 10:49 am

BravoOne wrote:
Thanks for the reply. That was sent to by an ardent Boeing guy and not knowing anything about the Bus I was not able to respond. Your comments are appreciated. I suspected the Daily Mail might only be good for the bottom of a bird cage.

Thanks again


No worries. It's like the article author interviewed some people, cherry-picked comments that fit his agenda (I'm guessing out of context), then not bothered to have an expert fact check his article.

The computers were going haywire. What does that even mean? Computers do malfunction, but this would engender a specific effect (which may be erratic, but still). Saying they go "haywire" is neither specific nor helpful.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
BravoOne
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Wed May 17, 2017 11:18 am

Hey, I go haywire all the time, just ask my wife:)
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Wed May 17, 2017 12:03 pm

glen wrote:
The loudest voice alert in a cockpit I ever heard came from the RAAS (Runway Awareness and Advisory System) on the A330. We are well used to the standard call-outs "Approaching RWY XY" and "On RWY XY".
There is a third warning call-out "ON TAXIWAY! ON TAXIWAY!" when the aircraft speed is above 40kts on a taxiway in order to avoid a erroneous departure from a taxiway. Until about a year ago the most northern part of RWY22R in JFK was designed as taxiway only but got redesigned as runway after some construction work. Before the database of the RAAS got updated we were warned by briefing card about the possibility of a triggering of the "on taxiway"-warning when taking-off from full length. So we were prepared and had rebriefed it again before departure - but when the alert was actually triggered it was so loud it could freeze your blood. Even the F/A's in the galley were freightened and asked about it after departure.


Sounds like the ROW/ROP (Runway Overrun Warning/Runway Overrun Protection) system on the 350. Very loud, and not the same voice as the other voice warnings. The accent is very upper class British. It sounds like Colin Firth is standing next to you screaming "MAX REVERSE!!!" or "RUNWAY TOO SHORT!"


ro1960 wrote:
I'm curious about the new generation nose designs of the A350 and 787 reminiscent of the Comet and Caravelle. How do they fare noise wise?


The 350 is quieter than the 330. Not dramatically, but noticeably. Except if you're sitting in the second observer seat, which is right by a large and noisy air vent.

Special mention goes to the crew rest on the 350, which has an active noise canceling function. You don't even need earplugs to sleep.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
achutchison
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Wed May 17, 2017 10:58 pm

The entire crew rest compartment has electronic active noise cancellation? That's absolutely genius provided I didn't interpret that wrong and it's just padded well (airbus' are already)!
 
Apprentice
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Thu May 18, 2017 5:40 am

Hi: Most of IL-62M noise does not come from Engines. It's aero dynamical noise, due to shape of aircraft's nose and the shape/ location of VHF antenna # 2 (??)
Nevertheless, engines (D30KU-II) with very low by-pass ratio (around 1, if I remember correctly) are also very noisy. The airplane is vetoed in some airports for noise contamination levels.
Typical jokes for crew that before promotion flew IL-62.. was 1. About Noise. 2. About Raise/Lower Tail Gear..

Rgds/
A "NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor
 
VSMUT
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Thu May 18, 2017 8:21 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Seneca is a fun bird to fly. Except when it does that put-put thing once in a while - guaranteed to launch your balls into your skull!


Aye, did that to me in the west too. I even experienced an engine spin the wrong way round on startup once.

I did a single VFR flight in the Seneca once, still one of the most fun flights I have ever done! It really feels great to zig-zag between the CBs and TCUs in that thing.
 
masi1157
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Thu May 18, 2017 11:45 am

Starlionblue wrote:
Special mention goes to the crew rest on the 350, which has an active noise canceling function. You don't even need earplugs to sleep.


No, it doesn't. There is no ANC system on any Airbus A/C.

Gruß, masi1157
479 different segments on 95 airlines to 199 airports in 54 countries
 
achutchison
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Fri May 19, 2017 4:39 am

masi1157 wrote:

No, it doesn't. There is no ANC system on any Airbus A/C.

Gruß, masi1157


You an a350 pilot?
 
masi1157
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Fri May 19, 2017 5:15 am

achutchison wrote:
You an a350 pilot?

No. But if there were any such system on an Airbus, I would know.

Gruß, masi1157
479 different segments on 95 airlines to 199 airports in 54 countries
 
ImperialEagle
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Fri May 19, 2017 10:56 pm

Lockheed L10 Electra, Beech D18, Curtiss C46.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
BravoOne
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Sat May 20, 2017 1:00 am

The VC10 was pretty sweat as well. Rode the JS several times on East African Airways, Great crews.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Sun May 21, 2017 4:08 pm

Woodreau wrote:
The NEO is whisper quiet compared to the 320 CEO. Still has the barking dog tho.

The 145 is annoying, every warning and caution is dumb, if it meets the criteria, ding, ding, and ding, There's no thought for phase of flight. Of course the cabin door is open, we're at the gate, master warning ding. Of course there low engine oil pressure, the engine is shutdown normally. But there's no warning for engine running with the master fadec switch off. It got to the point where I just ignored every warning or caution that the emb-145 generated.

There was an email one day warning about making sure the engine was shutdown before leaving the aircraft. Because I guess a crew left the engine running because they missed it amidst all the other nuisance warnings in the emb-145 cockpit.

Nuissance warnings are a growing issue. When you have aircraft design by committee, everyone wants every possibility shouted out.

I'm curious as to why the NEO is so much quieter than the CEO. It was previously mentioned up thread that the CRT cooling was loud in early CEOs, is there anything else worthy of note between the CEO and NEO? Was more noise insulation added, new avionics reducing cooling need... I'm just curious, any information would be appreciated. For the record, I've never done any design work, other than flight software, up in the cockpit, so I'm very curious as to the design evolution.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Mon May 22, 2017 12:14 am

masi1157 wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
Special mention goes to the crew rest on the 350, which has an active noise canceling function. You don't even need earplugs to sleep.


No, it doesn't. There is no ANC system on any Airbus A/C.

Gruß, masi1157


The A350 flight crew bunks each have a black button that makes things quieter through some sort of tech wizardry. I don't know exactly how the magic button performs this wizardry but I was told "active noise cancellation" by the tech instructor during my course, and pressing the magic button does make a very noticeable difference.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
masi1157
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Mon May 22, 2017 9:09 pm

It is an active system, but it doesn't cancel noise nor make the crew rests quieter. In fact it does the opposite: It masques intrusive noise by adding a bit more continuous broadband noise.

Gruß, masi1157
479 different segments on 95 airlines to 199 airports in 54 countries
 
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767333ER
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Mon May 22, 2017 9:37 pm

WIederling wrote:
707 .... : What I always wanted to know : is the 747 cockpit "new" or adapted from some existing layout (inside, outside) ?

The structure was designed from scratch when it was new with superior aerodynamics to the 707 nose a set it featured better blending of the windows which were made curved and the interior was similar to the 707. Since the structure is the same, but since the -400 the cockpit itself is completely different, kinda what they should have done with the 737.

WIederling wrote:
767333ER wrote:
The old A320s have a loud packs system compared to the newer A319s and A321s and the few newer A320s all of which have nearly silent packs.


The A320 is an uncompetitive 1980ties design that never saw any updates.

SCNR :-)

I was referring to Air Canada's fleet as the majority of their A320s are old and despite having noisier packs and ventilation, if you haven't been on the early 90s A320-211s you wouldn't know. They will still have quieter flight decks than their 737 MAXes will.

You could make the case that the A320 is such a competitive airframe that it hardly has needed any update since the 80s even though it has had two iterations of the CFM56 and V2500, PW6000, and now the new engines combined with many under the hood mods. Regardless of those changes, it's still impressive how it has lasted with nothing more done to it.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172S P2006T
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Mon May 22, 2017 11:45 pm

masi1157 wrote:
It is an active system, but it doesn't cancel noise nor make the crew rests quieter. In fact it does the opposite: It masques intrusive noise by adding a bit more continuous broadband noise.

Gruß, masi1157


That's how active noise cancellation works. Adding a new sound to "cancel" the original sound.

Not technically quieter, but for the fleshbag in the bunk it is definitely perceived as quieter.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
masi1157
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Tue May 23, 2017 7:00 am

Starlionblue wrote:
That's how active noise cancellation works. Adding a new sound to "cancel" the original sound.

Not technically quieter, but for the fleshbag in the bunk it is definitely perceived as quieter.

You don't know much about acoustics, do you?

ANC systems add noise with exactly the same amplitude but opposite phase, so that both cancel out by destructive interference. The actual noise level is decreased by that effect. But they work only under very limited conditions in space, frequency, spectral content, continuousity etc. Cancelling mid frequency broadband noise in a complete FCRC or even a single bunk would not be feasible.

Gruß, masi1157
479 different segments on 95 airlines to 199 airports in 54 countries
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: What cockpits are particularly noisy?

Tue May 23, 2017 7:56 am

masi1157 wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
That's how active noise cancellation works. Adding a new sound to "cancel" the original sound.

Not technically quieter, but for the fleshbag in the bunk it is definitely perceived as quieter.

You don't know much about acoustics, do you?

ANC systems add noise with exactly the same amplitude but opposite phase, so that both cancel out by destructive interference. The actual noise level is decreased by that effect. But they work only under very limited conditions in space, frequency, spectral content, continuousity etc. Cancelling mid frequency broadband noise in a complete FCRC or even a single bunk would not be feasible.

Gruß, masi1157


Good info. Thanks.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

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