DLATL
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Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 9:34 pm

With Delta significantly increasing the aircraft numbers in the 180-199 seat range, I know we will see an increase in some routes, but what about the ones who can’t handle that big of an increase? I know Delta is smart in what they do, but this will be interesting to see how they do this shuffle that is upcoming.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 9:39 pm

A220-500
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 9:43 pm

MAX8s, with conversion rights to MAX 10s. Bet on it.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 9:49 pm

The orders for the a220-100/300 wont help fill this gap? They currently have 90 total on order which are largely meant to upgage routes flown with the e175 & CR9 however that could easily be upped to cover the md80/90 routes that won’t support an upgage to the a320 family...
Last edited by HPAEAA on Sat May 25, 2019 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1.4mm and counting...
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 10:06 pm

I think it's important to remember MD88 routes aren't necessarily all turning into 739s and 321s, there's some upgauging of routes previously operated by A320s and A319s that frees up some of those frames too. With airlines as large as Delta they aren't necessarily swapping one aircraft with another fleet wide
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Bobloblaw
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 10:09 pm

People here focus on seats but what matters is block hour costs. The 738 and 739 are already replacing the M88s. As 321s come on board they are replacing 737NGs which then replace M88s.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 10:10 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
The orders for the a220-100/300 wont help fill this gap? They currently have 90 total on order which are largely meant to upgage routes flown with the e175 & CR9 however that could easily be upped to cover the md80/90 routes that won support an upgage to the a320 family...

Agreed. I fully expect a top off order.

But DL is doing well on their upgauging strategy.

Lightsaber
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Antarius
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 10:13 pm

DLATL wrote:
With Delta significantly increasing the aircraft numbers in the 180-199 seat range, I know we will see an increase in some routes, but what about the ones who can’t handle that big of an increase? I know Delta is smart in what they do, but this will be interesting to see how they do this shuffle that is upcoming.


The a220-300 is a near exact replacement of the MD88 from a seating capacity. They actually have more flexibility now, as they can go from an RJ (75 seater) to l a221(109 seats) to a223 (~135?) to a319 and up
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 10:17 pm

The MD-88s are used on high frequency routes in and out of ATL that allow frequency to be adjusted to meet demand,

As an example, There are currently 9-10 MD-88 flights between ATL and IND spaced out about 90-120 minutes apart. Delta can slow frequency down to 120 minutes between flights with A321s or 75 minutes between flights with A220s. There is so much capacity in and out of ATL that frequency and revenue management systems allow flexibility to use a variety of narrowbodies. Replacing MD-88s with a combination of bigger and smaller planes is not a problem
 
SteelChair
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 10:23 pm

The gap between the 132 seat A220-300 and the 737-900 (180)/A321 (190) is too large. A320neo and 737-8 max are too large/heavy and not optimised for shorter routes. The A220-500 is perfect. Heck, its wing area is exactly the same size as the MD88....1209 sq ft. The only difference is 40% less block and per seat fuel savings (exact same capacity as the 88..149 seats).
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 10:38 pm

SteelChair wrote:
The gap between the 132 seat A220-300 and the 737-900 (180)/A321 (190) is too large. A320neo and 737-8 max are too large/heavy and not optimised for shorter routes. The A220-500 is perfect. Heck, its wing area is exactly the same size as the MD88....1209 sq ft. The only difference is 40% less block and per seat fuel savings (exact same capacity as the 88..149 seats).

There is no A220-500 and there may never be.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 10:38 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The MD-88s are used on high frequency routes in and out of ATL that allow frequency to be adjusted to meet demand,

As an example, There are currently 9-10 MD-88 flights between ATL and IND spaced out about 90-120 minutes apart. Delta can slow frequency down to 120 minutes between flights with A321s or 75 minutes between flights with A220s. There is so much capacity in and out of ATL that frequency and revenue management systems allow flexibility to use a variety of narrowbodies. Replacing MD-88s with a combination of bigger and smaller planes is not a problem

They are also used to MSN, DSM, OMA and GRR. Low frequency midwest routes.
 
rrbsztk
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 10:47 pm

Antarius wrote:
DLATL wrote:
With Delta significantly increasing the aircraft numbers in the 180-199 seat range, I know we will see an increase in some routes, but what about the ones who can’t handle that big of an increase? I know Delta is smart in what they do, but this will be interesting to see how they do this shuffle that is upcoming.


The a220-300 is a near exact replacement of the MD88 from a seating capacity. They actually have more flexibility now, as they can go from an RJ (75 seater) to l a221(109 seats) to a223 (~135?) to a319 and up


I've seen it reported in a few places that they are going with 130 seats. Not sure if that's a firm plan or reporting based on the cs300 standard configuration.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 10:48 pm

They will probably regret it as much as they regret not ordering a similar replacement for the 744 which is to say not at all
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 11:15 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The MD-88s are used on high frequency routes in and out of ATL that allow frequency to be adjusted to meet demand,

As an example, There are currently 9-10 MD-88 flights between ATL and IND spaced out about 90-120 minutes apart. Delta can slow frequency down to 120 minutes between flights with A321s or 75 minutes between flights with A220s. There is so much capacity in and out of ATL that frequency and revenue management systems allow flexibility to use a variety of narrowbodies. Replacing MD-88s with a combination of bigger and smaller planes is not a problem

They are also used to MSN, DSM, OMA and GRR. Low frequency midwest routes.


Very true. A319s, 717s, CR9s and A220s are also options. Delta has so much variety in its narrowbody fleet that replacing MD88s with a 150 seat plane isn’t necessary
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 11:36 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
The gap between the 132 seat A220-300 and the 737-900 (180)/A321 (190) is too large. A320neo and 737-8 max are too large/heavy and not optimised for shorter routes. The A220-500 is perfect. Heck, its wing area is exactly the same size as the MD88....1209 sq ft. The only difference is 40% less block and per seat fuel savings (exact same capacity as the 88..149 seats).

There is no A220-500 and there may never be.


Delta wouldn't risk ordering/having two hundred 221/223/225. BBD/Airbus hasn't proven output capacity nor longevity of the aircraft. Call a MAX8 heavy but 737s and 737NGs proved very durable. Don't forget, DL isn't teeing up just to replace MD-88s and MD-90s... there are ~40 A320s due to hit age 30 by 2025, along with more than 20 757-200s (excluding the charter config).
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 11:41 pm

Antarius wrote:
DLATL wrote:
With Delta significantly increasing the aircraft numbers in the 180-199 seat range, I know we will see an increase in some routes, but what about the ones who can’t handle that big of an increase? I know Delta is smart in what they do, but this will be interesting to see how they do this shuffle that is upcoming.


The a220-300 is a near exact replacement of the MD88 from a seating capacity.


When DL converted some 220-100 orders and ordered 15 more 220-300s, it said the 223s would seat 130. MD-88s seat 149. The MD-90s seat 158. That's a downguage when DL does a lot of talking about upgauging.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 11:47 pm

They are upgauging routes that used to be operated with 150–160 seaters including A320 738 MD90 and those are back filling MD88 routes that don’t need 739 A321 capacity. Some may revert to 717 particularly some of the very short hop ATL flights that are currently MD88 more or less out of availability.
 
Antarius
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sat May 25, 2019 11:49 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
DLATL wrote:
With Delta significantly increasing the aircraft numbers in the 180-199 seat range, I know we will see an increase in some routes, but what about the ones who can’t handle that big of an increase? I know Delta is smart in what they do, but this will be interesting to see how they do this shuffle that is upcoming.


The a220-300 is a near exact replacement of the MD88 from a seating capacity.


When DL converted some 220-100 orders and ordered 15 more 220-300s, it said the 223s would seat 130. MD-88s seat 149. The MD-90s seat 158. That's a downguage when DL does a lot of talking about upgauging.


That's 19 seats. DL doesnt have a 100% LF.

Also, instead of 2 MD88s, DL can send one A223 and one 738, tailored towards demand per flight.
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 12:00 am

Even if the A220 isn’t a direct replacement it’s still a good one. The configuration is the same as the MD88 and they will save money on fuel and maintenance. The bean counters at Delta know what to put where and when. They have so many different wide bodies it gives them flexibility.
 
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 12:15 am

Antarius wrote:
DLATL wrote:
With Delta significantly increasing the aircraft numbers in the 180-199 seat range, I know we will see an increase in some routes, but what about the ones who can’t handle that big of an increase? I know Delta is smart in what they do, but this will be interesting to see how they do this shuffle that is upcoming.


The a220-300 is a near exact replacement of the MD88 from a seating capacity. They actually have more flexibility now, as they can go from an RJ (75 seater) to l a221(109 seats) to a223 (~135?) to a319 and up


The MD-88 seats 149.
 
rrbsztk
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 12:22 am

With the current orders Delta is going to

131 with 109 or 110 seats (40 A221 & 71 B717)
117 with 124, 130, or 132 seats (10 B737-700, 50 A223, 57 A319)
139 with 157 or 160 seats (62 A320 & 77 B737-800)
130 with 180 seats (130 B737-900)
227 with 192 or 197 seats (127 A321 & 100A321neo)
??? with 199 seats. (B757-200) not sure how many 757s are retiring versus staying. Currently they have over 100.

Overall they have a bunch of planes in every size bracket. Although the 350+ big narrow bodies ordered (180 to 197 seats) sounds like a huge increase, a third of that order is 180 seats so not that much bigger than the MDs leaving. Plus a decent portion of the A321s will be replacing 757s so giving up a couple few seats for a 1:1 replacement.

This all said their A320s are at over 20 years old and the B737-800s are approaching 20. At some point in the moderate future they will need to order a 150to160 seat replacement. Whether they stick to about 140 in that category or increase or decrease i couldn't say...but i am pretty sure they won't go to zero planes between 132 and 180 seats.
 
reltney
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 12:28 am

speedbird52 wrote:
They will probably regret it as much as they regret not ordering a similar replacement for the 744 which is to say not at all



Yup! 350 introduction was close to a disaster. Unable to say more.
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 12:29 am

DL757NYC wrote:
Even if the A220 isn’t a direct replacement it’s still a good one. The configuration is the same as the MD88 and they will save money on fuel and maintenance. The bean counters at Delta know what to put where and when. They have so many different wide bodies it gives them flexibility.


This, bean counters earn their keep by constantly keeping the right aircraft in the right market & this is a huge advantage to DL & it's shareholders. DL is uniquely positioned to replace aircraft on almost any given route in short order. DL has been given flack over the hodge podge of aircraft & sourcing, but their ability to swap specific routes with alternate aircraft, to optimize to their benefit, is part of their unbridled success.

The fact DL sees the market for the A-220 & their ability to jump on an order quickly, will give DL an edge over the competition in the proper markets, which I am sure DL has already identified plenty of future routes for this very capable aircraft. Like the 757, I think it's true value will be realized once DL has flown it for a year or two & know the real capabilities of the aircraft. Kudos to DL.
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rbavfan
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 12:53 am

Antarius wrote:
DLATL wrote:
With Delta significantly increasing the aircraft numbers in the 180-199 seat range, I know we will see an increase in some routes, but what about the ones who can’t handle that big of an increase? I know Delta is smart in what they do, but this will be interesting to see how they do this shuffle that is upcoming.


The a220-300 is a near exact replacement of the MD88 from a seating capacity. They actually have more flexibility now, as they can go from an RJ (75 seater) to l a221(109 seats) to a223 (~135?) to a319 and up


If you base the seating and seat pitches 37" first in MD-88/90, 36" in A220, 34" for Comfort+ in all, 30-31" MD-90, 31-33" MD88 & 30-32" A220. Then the proposed same stretch as 100 to 300 series to make a 500 would give the following based on Inches added to air frames. MD-90 158 seats, MD-88 149 seats & A220-500 153 seats. So if the 500 is built it would fall directly between the MD-88/90 series in capacity. That said the the current orders are for A221 & A223 that seat 109 & an est 129 seats both far smaller then MD88/90 series.

I don't consider a 20 to 29 seat difference in seating between an A220-300 & an MD88/90 an exact replacement. However some of the MD series are flying with lower loads, so it could make some sense. As they are fully depreciated the MD's can fly lower loads and still make money.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:36 am

reltney wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
They will probably regret it as much as they regret not ordering a similar replacement for the 744 which is to say not at all



Yup! 350 introduction was close to a disaster. Unable to say more.

Really? Wow. Did it have to do with reduced capacity or are you not allowed to say
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:53 am

I was once a fan of Delta's fleet strategy, picking up a couple used 757 & 767's along with picking up the MD90's and 717's while also retaining older aircraft like the MD88's, MD90's, and 757's as they got the job done and were more cost effective than picking up brand new aircraft. Delta seems to be doing a 180 now where they are getting rid of all older aircraft (save for possibly the 717's and newer 757/767's) and ordering a bunch of brand new aircraft. The problem is, unlike at AA & UA, they don't seem to be replacing them with similar sized/operated aircraft. I've seen routes that were perfect with the MD88/MD90 replaced by aircraft that are either too big or too small. That is not even mentioning their long haul aircraft strategy (the whole 747 replaced by A350 issue). I really do think they need to rethink their fleet strategy because the company otherwise is great in all other aspects.
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Dominion301
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:54 am

speedbird52 wrote:
reltney wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
They will probably regret it as much as they regret not ordering a similar replacement for the 744 which is to say not at all



Yup! 350 introduction was close to a disaster. Unable to say more.

Really? Wow. Did it have to do with reduced capacity or are you not allowed to say


Sarcasm perhaps?
 
reltney
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:30 am

Dominion301 wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
reltney wrote:


Yup! 350 introduction was close to a disaster. Unable to say more.

Really? Wow. Did it have to do with reduced capacity or are you not allowed to say


Sarcasm perhaps?


No sarcasm. Some people no longer work at the airline because of it.
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
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Babyshark
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:36 am

speedbird52 wrote:
reltney wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
They will probably regret it as much as they regret not ordering a similar replacement for the 744 which is to say not at all



Yup! 350 introduction was close to a disaster. Unable to say more.

Really? Wow. Did it have to do with reduced capacity or are you not allowed to say


From a pilot training department point of view it was a major disaster but that was totally on a few of delta’s management pilots and they’re gone because of it. The jet itself did well.
 
Oliver2020
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 9:23 am

Super80Fan wrote:
I was once a fan of Delta's fleet strategy, picking up a couple used 757 & 767's along with picking up the MD90's and 717's while also retaining older aircraft like the MD88's, MD90's, and 757's as they got the job done and were more cost effective than picking up brand new aircraft. Delta seems to be doing a 180 now where they are getting rid of all older aircraft (save for possibly the 717's and newer 757/767's) and ordering a bunch of brand new aircraft. The problem is, unlike at AA & UA, they don't seem to be replacing them with similar sized/operated aircraft. I've seen routes that were perfect with the MD88/MD90 replaced by aircraft that are either too big or too small. That is not even mentioning their long haul aircraft strategy (the whole 747 replaced by A350 issue). I really do think they need to rethink their fleet strategy because the company otherwise is great in all other aspects.



I'm a huge fan of Deltas fleet strategy even now, my opinion a really good decision was picking up 3 md90's for the price of 1 new 738 including refurbishment. As far as the md 88 s I really wish they would last 35-40 years like the dc-9-50's had, but unfortunately ( judging by your screen name I think you'd agree that you wish they could fly that long or longer) the economics didn't work out. Its going sad when the t tails go because as an enthusiast the sky's aren't as exciting with two engines under the wins as aposed to DC 10, MD-11, 747, and A380. Just to add I love the 757 as it's easily identifiable flying at around 6000 feet over my house in LA without having to strain my eyes to identify which exact model twin the AC is.

As far as the change in strategy I believe it's a combination of change of CEO, and I'm borrowing what I read on another forum that the lease rates and interest rates changed to favor new vs used AC.

Although I'm curious as to why you say Delta chose the wrong AC for routes when AA picked the 738 to replace most of the MD 80's that they have/are retiring. Flying Delta for years I've never (especially in the last 16 years) been on a Delta AC that wasn't full BHM to ATL for the legs that have been operated by MD-88, Md-90, 738, 717. That being said my itinerary has changed multiple times up to 2 months before departure as Delta right sizes their AC per route. That's my opinion and if proven wrong I have no problem apologizing and admitting I'm wrong.

As far as long hall and the 744 vs A359 Richard Anderson said he wanted an aircraft with about 100 seats less than the what the 744 held to improve yields on the routes 744-376 seats vs a359-306 seats.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:20 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The MD-88s are used on high frequency routes in and out of ATL that allow frequency to be adjusted to meet demand,

As an example, There are currently 9-10 MD-88 flights between ATL and IND spaced out about 90-120 minutes apart. Delta can slow frequency down to 120 minutes between flights with A321s or 75 minutes between flights with A220s. There is so much capacity in and out of ATL that frequency and revenue management systems allow flexibility to use a variety of narrowbodies. Replacing MD-88s with a combination of bigger and smaller planes is not a problem

They are also used to MSN, DSM, OMA and GRR. Low frequency midwest routes.


DAY gets them. I think CAK still has an RON on an M88, too.
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:41 pm

Babyshark wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
reltney wrote:


Yup! 350 introduction was close to a disaster. Unable to say more.

Really? Wow. Did it have to do with reduced capacity or are you not allowed to say


From a pilot training department point of view it was a major disaster but that was totally on a few of delta’s management pilots and they’re gone because of it. The jet itself did well.


Care to elaborate? What went wrong? No need to point fingers, lets use it as an exercise of how NOT to do it?
 
jagraham
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:45 pm

rrbsztk wrote:
With the current orders Delta is going to

131 with 109 or 110 seats (40 A221 & 71 B717)
117 with 124, 130, or 132 seats (10 B737-700, 50 A223, 57 A319)
139 with 157 or 160 seats (62 A320 & 77 B737-800)
130 with 180 seats (130 B737-900)
227 with 192 or 197 seats (127 A321 & 100A321neo)
??? with 199 seats. (B757-200) not sure how many 757s are retiring versus staying. Currently they have over 100.

Overall they have a bunch of planes in every size bracket. Although the 350+ big narrow bodies ordered (180 to 197 seats) sounds like a huge increase, a third of that order is 180 seats so not that much bigger than the MDs leaving. Plus a decent portion of the A321s will be replacing 757s so giving up a couple few seats for a 1:1 replacement.

This all said their A320s are at over 20 years old and the B737-800s are approaching 20. At some point in the moderate future they will need to order a 150to160 seat replacement. Whether they stick to about 140 in that category or increase or decrease i couldn't say...but i am pretty sure they won't go to zero planes between 132 and 180 seats.


Link for the reduction in 717s please
 
rrbsztk
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:02 pm

jagraham wrote:
rrbsztk wrote:
With the current orders Delta is going to

131 with 109 or 110 seats (40 A221 & 71 B717)
117 with 124, 130, or 132 seats (10 B737-700, 50 A223, 57 A319)
139 with 157 or 160 seats (62 A320 & 77 B737-800)
130 with 180 seats (130 B737-900)
227 with 192 or 197 seats (127 A321 & 100A321neo)
??? with 199 seats. (B757-200) not sure how many 757s are retiring versus staying. Currently they have over 100.

Overall they have a bunch of planes in every size bracket. Although the 350+ big narrow bodies ordered (180 to 197 seats) sounds like a huge increase, a third of that order is 180 seats so not that much bigger than the MDs leaving. Plus a decent portion of the A321s will be replacing 757s so giving up a couple few seats for a 1:1 replacement.

This all said their A320s are at over 20 years old and the B737-800s are approaching 20. At some point in the moderate future they will need to order a 150to160 seat replacement. Whether they stick to about 140 in that category or increase or decrease i couldn't say...but i am pretty sure they won't go to zero planes between 132 and 180 seats.


Link for the reduction in 717s please


That should have said 91 717s (for 131 with 109 or 110 seats)
Sorry about that.
 
jagraham
Posts: 836
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:05 pm

rrbsztk wrote:
jagraham wrote:
rrbsztk wrote:
With the current orders Delta is going to

131 with 109 or 110 seats (40 A221 & 71 B717)
117 with 124, 130, or 132 seats (10 B737-700, 50 A223, 57 A319)
139 with 157 or 160 seats (62 A320 & 77 B737-800)
130 with 180 seats (130 B737-900)
227 with 192 or 197 seats (127 A321 & 100A321neo)
??? with 199 seats. (B757-200) not sure how many 757s are retiring versus staying. Currently they have over 100.

Overall they have a bunch of planes in every size bracket. Although the 350+ big narrow bodies ordered (180 to 197 seats) sounds like a huge increase, a third of that order is 180 seats so not that much bigger than the MDs leaving. Plus a decent portion of the A321s will be replacing 757s so giving up a couple few seats for a 1:1 replacement.

This all said their A320s are at over 20 years old and the B737-800s are approaching 20. At some point in the moderate future they will need to order a 150to160 seat replacement. Whether they stick to about 140 in that category or increase or decrease i couldn't say...but i am pretty sure they won't go to zero planes between 132 and 180 seats.


Link for the reduction in 717s please


That should have said 91 717s (for 131 with 109 or 110 seats)
Sorry about that.



Thanks. I was starting to get worried!
 
tkoenig95
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:05 pm

On top of the remaining A321 and 739, the A32N is coming onboard next year and will have the ability to help replace the 114 MD88/90s that are online right now. DL has done a fantastic job of growing markets to fill the gap that exists between the MD88/90 (DFW, AUS, SAT, MCI) and bigger aircraft, so I don't see the departure of the 150-seat equipment as a bad thing.
 
rrbsztk
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:48 am

Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:18 pm

jagraham wrote:
rrbsztk wrote:
jagraham wrote:

Link for the reduction in 717s please


That should have said 91 717s (for 131 with 109 or 110 seats)
Sorry about that.



Thanks. I was starting to get worried!


Sorry to worry ya. That was me failing at correctly correcting the typo 71 B917s when i proofread.
 
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spinotter
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:20 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
reltney wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
They will probably regret it as much as they regret not ordering a similar replacement for the 744 which is to say not at all



Yup! 350 introduction was close to a disaster. Unable to say more.


Come on, at least some hints. The A350 introduction by Airbus itself seemed to proceed fairly painlessly and on time, is that correct? And at Delta?

Edit: Saw babyshark's reply about Delta's pilot training. So nothing about the A350 itself?
 
formeraa
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:27 am

Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:37 pm

The A320neo would be a perfect replacement for the MD88 and fit right between the A220-300 and the 737-900.
 
Lootess
Posts: 123
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 4:08 pm

Delta is the most profitable airline in the world, how could they regret it. The opportunity to upgauge flights already on A319/A320/738 with newer aircraft and moving those down to replace MDs is and has been a solid plan. You have to remember older 757s are being withdrawn as well.

Some passenger saying on a single flight they were on was not full as reason they think the route was up-gauged too heavily is someone you shouldn't listen to.
 
Oliver2020
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:39 am

Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md

Sun May 26, 2019 5:04 pm

Lootess wrote:
Delta is the most profitable airline in the world, how could they regret it. The opportunity to upgauge flights already on A319/A320/738 with newer aircraft and moving those down to replace MDs is and has been a solid plan. You have to remember older 757s are being withdrawn as well.

Some passenger saying on a single flight they were on was not full as reason they think the route was up-gauged too heavily is someone you shouldn't listen to.


I think your talking about me in the last part and if it wasn't I'm sorry. I was trying to make a point that Delta knows exactly what their doing, and what upgauging needs to be done and what down gauging needs to be done.

Not directed at you just to clarify to everyone out of the 80,000 I'm almost certain 10,000 of those employees are involved in fleet purchase decisions. Those employees know about what goes into fleet purchases more than anyone on a net ever thought about knowing about fleet decisions, and the outcome of what the purchases will require (ex routes, seats, avod, wifi, 30 year lease or ownership, carpet, lavs, the estimated cost of maintenance over 30 years)
If someone wants to look back on it and to clarify the time frame regarding the A321 RFP please correct me. Long before an RFP is issued Delta begins discussion with AC vendors and other vendors to get a general idea of all the options they require. I'm going to be generous and say 3 months most likely a a year before an RFP is issued ( although I'm sure employees are speaking daily with vendors) then an RFP is issued ( rumors began a year before about the a321neo RFP) by the time it was clarified by Delta it was I believe 11 months before a decision was announced. I used this as an example to stay on topic as Delta announced the A321 and 739er to be an md88& later included md 90 replacement. These decisions are not made overnight by a CEO who says hey this sounds good 8am in th morning I'm gonna call Airbus/Boeing and order 100 AC whether we need them are not.

As Lootness said they are one of the most profitable airlines in the world, they know what they are doing.

Reason = they don't purchase AC with their hearts regardless of what anyone on a net thinks or period for that matter. Delta purchases the best aircraft for the business that will produce the most profit for them during the projected life of the aircraft.

My apologies for the rant, but most people on here give me a good laugh with the Delta hates Boeing, and maybe they do.BUT if the AC Boeing offers offers everything that Delta wants and needs at the right price they will buy Boeing regardless of the recent Airbus orders and that bussiness and FYI for people who don't believe it Boeing will sell them the aircraft if Delta wants it. Apologies if I made grammar mistakes as I will do my best to correct them after I post as I'm typing on an iPad with fat fingers lol
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Sun May 26, 2019 8:43 pm

RWA380 wrote:
DL757NYC wrote:
Even if the A220 isn’t a direct replacement it’s still a good one. The configuration is the same as the MD88 and they will save money on fuel and maintenance. The bean counters at Delta know what to put where and when. They have so many different wide bodies it gives them flexibility.


This, bean counters earn their keep by constantly keeping the right aircraft in the right market & this is a huge advantage to DL & it's shareholders. DL is uniquely positioned to replace aircraft on almost any given route in short order. DL has been given flack over the hodge podge of aircraft & sourcing, but their ability to swap specific routes with alternate aircraft, to optimize to their benefit, is part of their unbridled success.

The fact DL sees the market for the A-220 & their ability to jump on an order quickly, will give DL an edge over the competition in the proper markets, which I am sure DL has already identified plenty of future routes for this very capable aircraft. Like the 757, I think it's true value will be realized once DL has flown it for a year or two & know the real capabilities of the aircraft. Kudos to DL.

Every business has core strengths and core regidities. DL's core strength is to opperate a large enough sub-fleet economically. This has allowed them to opportunistically buy sub fleets such as the 717.

If DL seesa gap, they will buy. For example, currently A319s are fairly cheap used. If utilized under 7 hours per day, on average, a good buy. Say to fly more peak demand flying. As the A220 establishes itself and production of the NEO, MAX and A220 increases, so will opportunities.

I'm not worried for DL and their upgauging strategy.

Lightsaber
You know nothing John Snow.
 
micstatic
Posts: 727
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:07 pm

Re: Will Delta regret not ordering a similar replacement for the Md-88?

Mon May 27, 2019 1:19 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
MAX8s, with conversion rights to MAX 10s. Bet on it.


I actually think the A320neo is a much safer bet. Airbus can combine more A321neo and A321neoLR and A220 as part of the deal. Commonality. As a medallion I sure hope they go this way. 737 is the worst.
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